Maz：Phantom 的全新交易终端、加密领域建设及更多 | TG 播客

How are you, bro?

Can you hear me?

I can. You're a little quiet. Let me turn you up. Cool. Welcome back, man. It's good to have you back on the stream, dude.

Thank you, bro. How are you doing, my favorite coworker?

My favorite coworker. I'm great, man. How are you? Congratulations on everything you guys are working on—the big announcement today.

Thank you so much for having me on. I'd love to show you more and tell you more about it.

Of course, dude. Should we just rip a screen share right away, and then we can talk and look at the same time?

Yeah, let's rip a screen share right away, and then we can do Q&A or whatever you want.

Let's fucking go. It's been a while since you've come on the stream, bro.

All right, let's see. Let me—

This will be my third time. Can you see my stream?

Scroll. Let me try to go full. Okay, fuck it. Pop out. Damn, I just fucked it. I had it. Oh, here we go. Awesome. Boom, I see it.

Okay. This is your favorite coin, right?

Pump. Yeah, let's go. Say less.

For those that don't know, I'm Maz, formerly the founder of Soul Sniper and the team lead for the advanced trading team at Phantom. Today we're announcing the new Phantom trading terminal, so I can do a quick little product overview.

Basically, we have the classic trading terminal features, like new coins. You're able to see trending coins, and you're able to see your favorite coins. This is PUMP and Meteora. Basically, everything on-chain on Solana is tradable.

What's also really cool is that we support Hyperliquid perps. If you can see my screen here, let's say the memecoin market's not doing so hot. Let's go short Bitcoin. We have a full new suite of features, including a classic wallet tracker. We can see our good friend Jeff buying coins here.

Then there's the portfolio page, which will aggregate all of your Solana balances as well as your Hyperliquid perps P&L, things like that. That's the introduction to the product. I think it's a broader mission. Today's only day one of bringing Phantom more into an on-chain trading venue and less of just a wallet utility.

One of my favorite features has to do with how you can log in as well. We have this new “Connect with Phantom” module. Basically, what that allows you to do is use this secure wallet to trade in a non-custodial way, where you don't have to auto-confirm.

What do you mean you don't have to auto-confirm? How does that work?

It's this new technology built internally by Phantom. It has to do with this new Phantom Connect product. It's an open-source wallet SDK, so all the dApp developers are able to plug into the Phantom wallet ecosystem and let anyone log in and access these more secure and deeper automation features.

I think that's the quick overview. What's really cool about it as well is that if you want to connect a wallet, you're able to bring all of your positions over from your Phantom wallet. In the same way, if you use Phantom Connect, when you log into your Phantom wallet on your phone, you're able to bring those positions over as well.

We're really reimagining a world where you're trading both on Phantom on the go and on the desktop as well, and that's all interchangeable.

This is cool. Do you want to stop screen share?

I have a bunch for you. This is a cool callback, though. Someone asked, “Is there a paper-trading feature from the original Soul Sniper?”

No, there is not. For now, the original Soul Sniper is still up, and we intend this product to be more like something where you can graduate into real trading—trading perps, trading memes.

I think that's the goal. We're not necessarily trying to service just paper trading. That's maybe something we can consider in the future, but right now, if that's what you're into, I would recommend using sniper.xyz and then graduating to the new trade.phantom.com.

I only asked because it was a fun callback. Tell me the rationale and the goal with launching this. Why this, and why now?

Phantom acquired Soul Sniper a few months ago, so this will be our third month since the acquisition. A big part of it was our ability to help drive the roadmap and push it further, such that we could get this product to market sooner.

In terms of Phantom as a wallet and trading company, this is a longer-term investment. Having a really strong mobile app and extension but not having its own desktop venue is a big step in that direction.

I know you've spent a lot of time, even in the early Sniper days, with trading terminals, talking to traders in NFTs, and trying to figure out what works, what doesn't work, what people like, and what people don't like. From where we are right now, how do you see trading terminals evolving?

Can these products get significantly better, or are they already so good? As you build this product out, how do you see the concept of a trading terminal evolving?

A couple of things I'm thinking about in terms of the larger landscape of trading terminals: they're pretty mature products today. Axiom, Photon, and Padre are pretty mature. That being said, the landscape of on-chain assets is constantly evolving.

That was a big push for us at Phantom: including perps in this initial launch. We know that, from the original perps launch inside Phantom, it was a really successful and growing product. Although the product itself is relatively mature and thought out in terms of what trading terminals look like today, the asset landscape is still changing, so there's still going to be a lot more innovation to come.

How is the perps product?

It's, I think, the fastest-growing Phantom product since the original Phantom.

Yeah, exactly. We've seen a lot of success from that, and that's something that, as a company, we take very seriously.

Whoa. It's a fast-growing Phantom product since the actual Phantom is awesome.

Someone asked this in the chat: How do fees work on the trading terminal?

It's the same as Phantom proper: 85 basis points. I think it's still some percentage less than the traditional 1% fee.

This is actually an interesting question someone put in the chat: Ask him about tokens as the atomic unit of on-chain trading. Is the token the final form factor, or do you see a world where we go back to NFTs or any other token standard?

Will perps take over? It's an interesting one, especially because of your history with Soul Sniper.

I'm a big NFT guy. I think it's hard to say. Tokens are really good for a very deliberate set of things. In terms of that transition from NFTs to tokens, at least, I'm a big believer in that.

That being said, I don't know if tokens are the be-all and end-all of what on-chain trading looks like. I think there's still a lot of room for innovation there. One example that I think about is prediction markets, and that's not really something that is being super-tokenized.

The only example of that really being tokenized is—you had Soju on earlier—the Meteora integration, right? But I'm not convinced that that's the final form. I don't know if tokens are where everything converges.

At least for Phantom, the goal should be to allow you to trade anything on-chain, token or not. Perps would be another example of this.

This is an interesting, funny callback. When I had CZ on, one of the things that was interesting about the Binance ecosystem is that it was pretty vertically integrated. You have meme launches on Four.meme, you can immediately trade them on PancakeSwap, then you can get listed on Aster for perps, and then you can get Binance Alpha and a Binance spot listing.

The whole thing happens in one place. You never leave the stack; you have the full picture.

Phantom is coming to this interesting spot now where you have the Phantom wallet, you have cash, you have perps natively right in there, and then you have the trading terminal. Anything else that you guys are working on—are you thinking about, or are you conscious of this when you're working on Phantom products—that you're building this edge that normal one-off trading terminals don't have?

You have this vertical stack where you really never have to leave the Phantom wallet to do everything that you want to do on-chain.

Yeah, I think that's definitely the vision. Part of the mission of us joining Phantom is to accelerate that vision of being more than just a wallet utility. I think there are almost 2 ways I look at the full stack, if that makes sense. One thing I really do love about Solana and the more decentralized ecosystems is that it allows for all of this innovation from all these random teams trying stuff out.

We definitely want to own the vertical experience from the product perspective, but I think allowing that to still be very decentralized is important. I don't know if you've seen the DEX versus CEX charts. It's one of those things where we really do believe in on-chain.

Yeah, I like that a lot. I mean, okay, I guess a question that kind of has to be asked on the chain side is—

Okay.

It's one of, if not the most competitive verticals of crypto: the trading bot wars. And it comes at a time in particular where Solana is $135 right now, so on-chain trade volume is relatively light. How do you think about the Phantom trading terminal and trading experience relative to Axiom, Photon, and the rest, relative to where on-chain is right now?

Yeah, definitely. I think one of the pillars at Phantom is “play to win,” right? We're not launching a trading terminal to just be any other trading terminal. The goal, as you've pointed out, is to have that fully vertically integrated stack for trading basically anything.

Even today, though Solana might be down and volumes are down, I'm a big Solana believer—you kind of know this about me—and I think long term, this is one step toward that longer-term investment. I'm not sure if on-chain is necessarily going to set the world on fire today, but we definitely want to be in position such that when that happens, Phantom is going to be a big player there.

Can you break down the plan or the vision for what it would take for the Phantom product to do a 10x from here?

I think, at least the way that I look at the world right now, for Phantom to really get to that next level, it has to capture a lot more of finance beyond just the current set of dApps on Solana, for example. I think that's about expanding the customer base.

From my experience seeing how Phantom is operating across many verticals, like the cash vertical and the Hyperliquid vertical, I think they're definitely a really ambitious firm, and I think they're going to get there.

I love that. I love to hear that as a fan and as a Solana enjoyer. I absolutely love to hear that. On-chain is in a little bit of a weird spot. I know how much of a Solana enjoyer you are, but you've got to be optimistic about where things are going to go.

I guess a follow-up on the trading terminal side is: who is this product for when you think about Phantom's trading terminal and trading experience? Is it for the pro trader? Is it more retail-centric and casual? Is it meant to encapsulate both crowds? What category is Phantom most focused on?

Yeah, I think a big part of why Soul Sniper was brought to Phantom was to really try to target that more professional segment. At least at Phantom, we see a gap where those casual Solana enjoyers want to graduate to a more advanced trading experience, and there's kind of a bridge that's missing.

I would say we're very specifically targeting that segment of more pro traders. Maybe this is not the product that's going to serve your first time on Solana, for example.

Yeah, it makes sense. Someone said, “Can they put in a feature to hide perps? I don't want to gamble.” If you're in the U.S., you can't access it anyway.

There you go.

I hate that we only have 15 minutes, but congratulations on the launch. I really appreciate you coming on. I guess it's sort of a wrap. Maz, now that this is live and you've finally announced that this is live, what is your number-one focus on the product side? Where does the focus shift? What are you working on? Where are you going to spend most of your resources and time moving forward?

Yeah, I think there's a lot more to improve. One thing that I've personally learned the most since working at Phantom is that the insistence on the highest standards is really, really insanely high. There's going to be a lot more in terms of making this product absolutely amazing for pro traders.

But I also think we're going to have a lot more in the pipeline in terms of expanding all the possible things that you could be doing. That's going to involve leveraging a lot of these new primitives, such as Phantom Connect, that I was showing you earlier.

Congratulations, man, and I appreciate your time and coming on. It's always a pleasure, dude.

Cool. Thank you, Thread.

All right, Mr. Maz. Hopefully some poker soon. I could use a little rehab on my cash, man.

Bro, every time. All right, have a good one.

All right, dude. Have a good one.