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Sohn Conference Foundation · · 9 分钟

Connie Lee 在Sohn 2025推介 nCino

Connie Lee

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TL;DR
  • Connie Lee 在Sohn的做多标的是 nCino:一家构建于Salesforce之上的云端放贷平台——“类似于Veeva为生命科学行业所做的事情”——她认为,在宏观经济不改善的前提下,3年内可为基金带来2.5倍回报。 目前多数银行仍用“80年代遗留系统和Excel的某种组合”发放贷款;对客户而言,nCino“实际上直接驱动着他们的收入引擎”。
  • 质量逻辑在于:90%以上收入具备经常性,增量利润率40%,每年提价5个百分点;最近一次提价7%时,“客户零抵触”。 nCino“非常、非常粘”,除非客户破产或被JPMorgan收购,否则几乎不会流失;Lee认为,JPMorgan是唯一一个既有足够规模、又有意愿自建全部技术的银行。过去10年,没有任何玩家进入商业贷款管理领域。
  • 市场空间在于:180亿美元TAM,对应不到30亿美元市值和约5.8亿美元一致预期收入;即便在商业贷款领域,渗透率也只有7%。 一套基于AI、覆盖全美银行的网页抓取筛选显示,超过半数银行仍在使用真正的遗留软件,只有20%以某种形式使用 nCino。行业参与者访谈显示,nCino赢下约60%的全部RFP;在资产超过50亿美元、寻求商业贷款管理方案的银行中,这一比例接近90%。
  • 估值折价——远期收入约4倍、毛利润约6.5倍,而同业为8倍和11倍——源于“一系列一次性事件叠加”。 按席位计价模式受到贷款经办人数下降30%的冲击,nCino增速从60%降至15%;占总收入15%的抵押贷款业务又遭遇交易量下滑60%;First Republic、Silicon Valley Bank和Signature Bank合计约占收入的4%,这部分收入已经消失。持有公司约三分之一股份的Insight一直在减持;此外,公司采用假设抵押贷款收入增长为0%的极度保守指引,也“吓到了投资者”。
  • 重新加速已经出现:上季度账单同比增长22%、积压订单增长18%,而1年前分别为12%和6%,创下7个季度以来最快增速。 Lee还指出,公司几乎不受关税影响,对衰退和通胀也不敏感,因此具备下行保护。该股当前价格比过去几年私募股权发起人收购软件公司的成交水平低35%。
  • 下行情景完全按管理层口径建模——年增长7%,客户新增维持过去几年的低迷速度,宏观环境不改善,增量利润率维持当前水平——即便如此,4至5年后买入该股仍相当于中个位数的自由现金流倍数。 明确风险包括执行风险,以及在上行兑现前被私募股权收购。总结而言,这是“折价买入世界级公司”的机会:押对时有可观收益,押错时也不会损失太多。
摘要 · 为研究而整理的核心内容

1. 设定:大幅折价的银行关键软件

  • Lee的框架是:银行靠发放贷款创造收入,但这是一个“非常复杂且高度监管”的流程,而多数银行仍靠“80年代的遗留系统和Excel”管理。构建于Salesforce之上的 nCino,就像“Veeva为生命科学行业所做的事情”,具备“粘性强、深度嵌入且对业务至关重要”的特征。
  • 她的核心判断是,nCino是“在大型、低渗透市场中占据主导地位的高质量企业”,但由于“一系列一次性事件叠加”而大幅折价交易。其估值约为远期收入4倍、毛利润6.5倍,而垂直软件同业为8倍和11倍;这并未反映其合同约定的经常性收入、持续提价能力,以及产生大量且可预测自由现金流的能力。Lee认为,在宏观经济不改善的情况下,一个现实情景仍可能在3年内为基金带来2.5倍回报。

2. 护城河:如开胸手术般的粘性,加上AI空间

  • 超过90%的收入具备经常性,增量利润率为40%,每年提价约5个百分点;最近一次,nCino宣布提价7%,客户“零抵触”。“把它拆出来就像做开胸手术。”(“Ripping this out is like open-heart surgery.”)除非客户破产或被JPMorgan收购,否则 nCino几乎不会流失客户;Lee称,JPMorgan是唯一一个既有足够规模、又有意愿自建全部技术的银行。
  • 过去10年,没有任何玩家进入 nCino的核心市场——商业贷款管理。Lee还认为,监管复杂性使得AI原生初创公司几乎不可能颠覆这一领域。nCino处在放贷与合规工作流的交汇点,因此拥有独特位置,可以利用差异化、深层次的数据池训练AI模型;其 Banking Advisor 产品已经在客户群中获得显著牵引力。

3. 市场空白:180亿美元TAM,商业贷款渗透率仅7%

  • Lee估算,nCino的TAM约为180亿美元,对应不到30亿美元市值,以及今年约5.8亿美元的一致预期收入。即便在商业贷款领域,nCino的渗透率也只有7%。
  • 一套基于AI、覆盖全美银行贷款管理软件的网页抓取筛选显示,超过半数银行仍在使用真正的遗留软件,只有20%以某种形式使用 nCino。Lee认为,nCino是唯一覆盖商业贷款和零售贷款的现代化解决方案;统一的数据仓库让银行可以把“有抵押贷款的个人John Doe”和“获得企业贷款的企业主John Doe”连接起来。
  • 行业参与者访谈显示,nCino赢下约60%的全部RFP;对于资产超过50亿美元、寻求商业贷款管理方案的银行,这一比例接近90%。

4. 为什么便宜:所有问题同时爆发

  • 随着利率上升,贷款经办人数下降30%,按席位计价模式受到冲击。nCino仍然实现增长,但增速只有15%,而非60%。公司目前正转向根据银行资产规模收取固定费用;Lee认为,这应能避免类似问题再次出现。
  • 抵押贷款业务占收入的15%,而抵押贷款交易量下降60%;nCino去年仍增长8%,但2019年至2021年间增幅超过440%。First Republic、Silicon Valley Bank和Signature Bank合计约占收入的4%,这部分收入已经消失。
  • 持有公司约三分之一股份的Insight过去1年一直在减持。Lee根据其交易行为判断,由此带来的压力可能很快消退。
  • 最后,管理层改用了Lee所称的最保守指引方法,包括假设抵押贷款收入增长为0%——这意味着较抵押贷款历史最差年份再放缓8个百分点。公司在每年提价5至6个百分点的同时,仍给出7%的增长指引,令投资者开始质疑这项业务是否还能重新增长。

5. 重新加速、估值测算与风险

  • 前瞻指标“讲述了一个完全不同的故事”:上季度账单同比增长22%、积压订单增长18%,而1年前分别为12%和6%,创下7个季度以来最快增速。即便不相信重新加速的逻辑,nCino当前交易价格也比过去几年私募股权发起人收购软件公司的成交水平低35%。Lee认为,只要相信重新加速叙事中的任何一部分,nCino未来几年就有望扩大至当前的2至3倍。
  • 下行情景假设年增长7%、宏观环境不改善、客户新增维持过去几年的低迷速度,利润率则按当前增量利润率同步扩张。即便如此,4至5年后估值仍将降至中个位数自由现金流倍数;利率下降或抵押贷款业务复苏,则会进一步改善结果。
  • Lee将主要风险归结为执行风险,以及在基金实现上行收益之前,私募股权发起人收购公司。她的结论是,这是一个非对称机会:可以“折价买入世界级公司”——押对时有可观上行,押错时下行有限。
Connie Lee

Good morning. My name is Connie Lee, and I’m the founder and CIO of Fearless Advantage, a long-short equity fund launching this year. I’m here today to talk about one of our favorite long ideas.

1. How Banks Generate Revenue

Banks generate revenue by issuing loans, and that process is very complicated and highly regulated. Believe it or not, most banks today manage this process using some combination of legacy systems from the 1980s and Excel. But some banks use nCino, a cloud-based platform built on top of Salesforce and customized for banking-specific workflows, similar to what Veeva has done for life sciences.

For nCino customers, nCino is one of the most important pieces of software within their technology stack. It literally drives their revenue engine. So, as you could imagine, nCino is very sticky, deeply embedded, and mission-critical for those customers.

Our investment thesis is simple. nCino is a high-quality business with a dominant position in a large, underpenetrated market. Yet it trades at a steep discount compared to peers due to a confluence of one-time events. We are already starting to see the business comp against all-time lows and reaccelerate. Even if we’re wrong about the company’s growth prospects, we think that we’re getting some unique downside protection at today’s prices.

nCino trades at a significant discount relative to historical private equity buyout prices, despite having many of the same characteristics that sponsors look for—namely, the ability to generate significant and predictable amounts of free cash flow. In today’s dynamic macroeconomic environment, it’s rare to find an asset that has minimal exposure to tariffs and limited sensitivity to recession and inflation.

Given that this is a mission-critical system with contractually recurring revenue and pricing increases, we think that we can make 2.5 times our money over the next 3 years under a very realistic case, assuming no improvement in macroeconomic conditions. Taken altogether, we think this presents a pretty compelling risk-reward.

2. The Mission Critical Moat

nCino exhibits the hallmarks of an exceptional business. Over 90% of nCino’s revenue is recurring, with 40% incremental margins. nCino is very, very sticky. Ripping this out is like open-heart surgery. What this means is that nCino rarely loses a customer unless the customer goes bankrupt or gets acquired by JPMorgan, the only bank with enough scale and desire to build all of its own technology.

It also means that nCino has incredible pricing power. They typically take 5 points of price a year and most recently announced a 7% price increase with zero customer pushback. Barriers to entry are incredibly high, given regulatory complexity. In the last 10 years, no one has entered nCino’s core market, commercial loan management.

And finally, nCino is an AI winner. Given how dynamic and complex regulations are around banks, it’s highly unlikely that this gets disrupted by an AI-native startup. In fact, nCino sits at the nexus of all lending and compliance workflows within a bank, putting it in a very unique position to train its AI model on differentiated, deep pools of data.

And that is exactly what nCino has done. Though it’s early days, its AI product, Banking Advisor, has already seen significant traction within its customer base.

3. The Untapped Banking Market

nCino plays in a large, underpenetrated market. We think the TAM is roughly $18 billion, but nCino is under a $3 billion market cap today. Consensus estimates that nCino will do roughly $580 million of revenue this year. Even where nCino is strongest, in the commercial segment, nCino is only 7% penetrated.

This is just a cut of U.S. banks with more than $1 billion of assets. We ran a proprietary, AI-based web-scraping screen to build a bottom-up market map of every single U.S. bank and the loan management software that they use. What we learned is that well over half of all U.S. banks are using what we can truly classify as legacy software, and only 20% are using nCino in some form or capacity.

What this tells us is that there’s a lot of white space. There’s a lot of low-hanging fruit. This chart deeply understates the dominance of nCino’s competitive position. nCino is the only modern solution that can handle both commercial and retail loans, and having a single repository of data across loan types is incredibly important for banks.

The only way to get a complete view of a customer is if a bank could tie John Doe, the individual with a mortgage, to John Doe, the business owner getting a business loan. Our industry participant interviews suggest that nCino wins about 60% of all RFPs, and that number is closer to 90% for banks with assets of more than $5 billion looking for a commercial loan management system.

4. Why nCino Trades Cheap

Despite all of this, nCino trades at a 50% discount to vertical software peers on an NTM basis. nCino trades at 4 times revenue and 6.5 times gross profit, versus comps at 8 times revenue and 11 times gross profit. That’s because, over the last couple of years, everything that could possibly go wrong for nCino has gone wrong for this business.

First, nCino used to price on a seat-based model based on the number of loan officers using its product. As you can imagine, over the last couple of years, as interest rates increased, the number of loan officers went down by 30%. nCino still grew throughout this period, given its competitive market position, large TAM, and large white space. But what this means is that instead of growing 60%, it grew 15%.

nCino is currently in the middle of a transition, changing its pricing model to more of a fixed-fee structure based on a bank’s asset size. So this actually shouldn’t be a problem going forward.

Second, 15% of nCino’s revenues are indexed to mortgages. Over the same time period, mortgage volumes went down 60%. Again, nCino’s business did grow—it grew 8% last year. But at one point, this was a business that grew more than 440% over 2019 to 2021.

Third, First Republic, Silicon Valley Bank, and Signature Bank comprised approximately 4% of nCino’s revenues, which went away.

Fourth, nCino had a very large shareholder, Insight, that owned about a third of the business. They’ve been exiting their stake over the past year, which has significantly pressured the stock. We think, based on their activity, this pressure is likely to abate very shortly.

And then, finally, this is a little bit more of a self-inflicted wound, but the company recently changed its guidance methodology to the most conservative one possible. To give an example, its guidance assumes 0% growth in its mortgage business, which would be an 8-point deceleration from the worst year on record for mortgages.

We think this came from a very thoughtful place: wanting to reestablish nCino as a consistent beat-and-raise company. But I think what it also inadvertently did was spook investors. They guided to nCino growing 7% this year, and this is a business that takes 5 to 6 points of price annually. So, understandably, investors were left questioning whether this business was one that could ever grow again.

5. The Reacceleration Is Real

However, digging underneath the hood, when you look at the forward-leading indicators for this business, you see a very different story. Last quarter, nCino’s billings grew 22% year-over-year, and backlog grew 18%. This is a significant reacceleration. At the same time last year, nCino’s billings grew 12%, and backlog grew only 6%.

This is the fastest that nCino’s billings and backlog have grown in the last 7 quarters. And look, even if you don’t believe the reacceleration story, nCino is currently trading 35% below where private equity sponsors have taken out software companies in the last few years. If you believe any part of the reacceleration story, it’s not that hard to see a path in which nCino is 2 to 3 times bigger in the next couple of years.

6. The Downside Case Works

This model takes management at their word and grows nCino 7% a year. It also assumes no improvement in macroeconomic conditions. So it has nCino adding customers at the very depressed pace at which it’s been adding customers over the last couple of years. Margins just grow in line with their current incremental margins today.

Even with those assumptions, we are buying down nCino’s valuation to a mid-single-digit multiple of free cash flow in the next 4 to 5 years. And if, at any point over the next few years, rates ever go down or mortgages ever come back, this would be a heck of a lot better than what we’re showing today.

We think, given where nCino is trading, the primary risks of the investment thesis are 1. execution, and 2. the possibility that this business gets taken out by a private equity sponsor before we can realize some of these upside outcomes.

In conclusion, we think that nCino presents a particularly asymmetric risk-reward: the opportunity to buy a world-beater at a discount, where you make a good amount of money if you’re right and don’t lose a whole lot if you’re wrong.

Thank you for listening and giving us the opportunity to present on an idea we love.

Connie Lee 在Sohn 2025推介 nCino — 文字稿与摘要 | BidClub