We are entering a SUPERCYCLE | Market Bubble #18
- The hosts replayed a 12:53 p.m. Robinhood call saying traditional-company crypto integrations lag because “the suits don’t see the data until late.” HOOD reportedly moved from roughly $111 premarket to about $124, with the hosts citing a 15%-17% daily gain on a roughly $100B company. The thesis was that Robinhood Chain revenue would not appear in reports until November 10: the chain was said to make up to $4M a day against roughly $4.5B of annual company revenue.
- The broader edge is crypto-native visibility into on-chain activity before it reaches traditional models. The hosts cited $34B in cumulative Robinhood Chain DEX volume, 12M addresses, recent $1.5B daily DEX volume and 190-plus tokenized stocks. They compared HOOD with Ansem’s earlier Coinbase thesis and discussed a possible retail/institutional “supercycle.”
- Robinhood CEO Vlad Tenev was quoted saying, “We’re at the beginning of a supercycle.” Ansem’s supporting thesis was that institutions now have ETFs, RWAs, tokenized stocks, stablecoins and regulatory progress, while retail onboarding has improved through Unibot, Friend.tech, Privy, Apple Pay and Gmail integrations.
- The stated core portfolio is Bitcoin, Zcash, PUMP, HOOD, Solana and Hyperliquid, with roughly 80% initially described as evenly distributed across those assets and the remainder reserved for higher-risk trades. Ansem said to keep safer assets as the majority and never full-port a $100,000 market-cap coin.
- UNIPCS, known as Bonk Guy, was presented as the on-chain standout: roughly $12M up over 30 days and $5M over 24 hours on FOMO, with public positions in PONZ, USELESS, MARS and Base Cat. The hosts cited post-tweet gains of about 42%, 52%, 61% and 63%, while emphasizing that these were no longer ultra-low-cap coins.
- Ansem said he anticipated Kraken becoming Hyperliquid’s compliant HIP-3 provider, based on Kraken’s NinjaTrader and Bitnomial acquisitions and its stated FCM, DCM and DCO licenses. His framing was that centralized exchanges and decentralized perp venues can combine regulatory infrastructure with crypto-native technology.
- Will Clemente argued that Bitcoin bottoms through seller exhaustion rather than a new catalyst. He cited quantum risk, DATs and relative underperformance as largely priced in, then presented financial repression as a possible macro regime favoring hard assets. He described ZEC as Bitcoin beta plus a quantum hedge and said his portfolio was roughly 65% BTC, with ZEC under one-tenth of that exposure.
- The guest segments covered AI creation and Net Net Capital. Tyler Bernabe/JBoog Creative described AI as a tool that lets him realize ideas across new mediums; Net Net Capital described a treasury model built around trading revenue, RWAs and games, with its treasury said to have grown from roughly $600,000 to $11M in about a month. The hosts repeatedly framed product integration as more important than token listings.
1. The Robinhood call and the delayed-revenue thesis
The hosts replayed a 12:53 p.m. post from the previous day saying that traditional companies lag when adding crypto integrations because “the suits don’t see the data until late.” The post described Robinhood as a chart coiling off the bottom, with a new Layer 2 revenue line and a target of “all-time highs plus 50% in Q4.”
The transcript does not cleanly establish whether Banks or Ansem authored the quoted post: Banks reads it as “I said,” while Ansem is repeatedly credited with the call. The hosts said the stock did not break the cited low, closed around $106, traded near $109 after-hours, reached roughly $111-$112 premarket and later traded around $124. They cited a daily move of roughly 15%-17% and about $15B in added market capitalization.
Their mechanism was that Robinhood Chain activity is visible to crypto traders before it appears in traditional earnings models. They cited peak chain revenue of about $4M per day, or more than $1B annualized, against roughly $4.5B of annual company revenue. Ansem said the revenue would not be reported until November 10. Additional figures cited were $34B in cumulative DEX volume, 12M addresses, recent daily DEX volume of $1.5B and more than 190 tokenized stocks.
The comparison was Coinbase early in the previous cycle: a listed company providing direct exposure to growing crypto activity. The hosts described Robinhood as a similar TradFi wrapper with existing stock distribution, crypto expansion, prediction markets and an institutional reputation that may appeal to investors unwilling to buy individual tokens.
2. UniPCS and the social-trading edge
Ansem described @UNIPCS, known as Bonk Guy, as a trader who publicly shared large entries and P&L throughout the previous cycle. He credited him with roughly $10M or more of unrealized profit on BONK, a few million on WIF from below a $10M market cap, and strong trades in Farcoin, GOAT and other on-chain assets. He also said UNIPCS gave back part of his gains after staying bullish and carrying leverage into the market’s “10/10” liquidation.
The current scoreboard was presented as roughly $5M up in 24 hours, $12M in 30 days and number one on FOMO’s leaderboard by a wide margin. The hosts cited about 10,000% on PONZ, 250% on USELESS, 172% on MARS and 117% on Base Cat, with the positions described as seven-figure or multi-seven-figure holdings.
They then reviewed a post containing PONZ, USELESS, MARS and BCAT. The hosts cited gains since the post of approximately 42%, 52%, 61% and 63%, respectively. They emphasized that these were not tiny coins: Base Cat was cited around $55M, MARS around $100M, USELESS around $185M and PONZ around $600M. Ansem’s explanation was that the multi-chain list deliberately gave each chain a leader for its own capital base.
The social-trading thesis was that on-chain positions are immediately visible, while traditional platforms require users to opt into sharing, face KYC constraints and deal with regulatory complications. Bonk Guy was said to have about 260,000 followers on X and nearly half a million followers locally on FOMO. Will Clemente later pushed back that visible wallets can create a reflexive standoff: traders may avoid selling because they do not want to trigger other observers, producing sharp rises and equally sharp unwinds.
3. Portfolio construction, Robinhood’s social question and momentum
Banks described roughly 80% of his crypto portfolio as spread fairly evenly across Bitcoin, Zcash, PUMP, Robinhood, Solana and Hyperliquid. Ansem characterized the mix as exposure to Bitcoin and Zcash, perps through HYPE, on-chain activity and social trading through PUMP, and TradFi through HOOD.
Banks questioned whether Robinhood would ever commit fully to social trading. He contrasted Robinhood’s institutional, KYC-heavy product with FOMO’s social-media-first design and argued that the eventual winner may need to make social trading the entire product. Ansem agreed that on-chain products have a current advantage but questioned whether Robinhood needs to push hard into the app layer while its infrastructure business is already generating substantial revenue.
Ansem’s risk rule was to keep roughly 70% in safer assets and 30% in more speculative positions, never full-porting a $100,000 market-cap coin. His warning was that a trader can lose the entire portfolio on a micro-cap and then miss the rest of a bull market.
4. Kraken, Saylor and the other market calls
Ansem said he anticipated Kraken becoming the first compliant HIP-3 deployer for Hyperliquid after seeing speculation from Shondaa and Devon S. He attributed Kraken’s regulatory position to its acquisitions of NinjaTrader and Bitnomial, which he said supplied the needed FCM, DCM and DCO licenses. He described the expected combination of Hyperliquid’s technical work and Kraken’s regulatory infrastructure as a major win for crypto.
On Michael Saylor, Ansem rejected the idea that Saylor was simply the worst trader on-chain. He said Saylor had been forced to sell Bitcoin to meet obligations connected to preferred stock and now had roughly 18 months or more of runway. He still criticized the execution for repeatedly appearing to buy near weekly highs, while Banks suggested that public-company approvals and trading processes might explain the timing.
Banks described Grok Bot as a workflow wrapper that gives each chat its own computer and lets users connect Slack, Telegram and other applications. He had not fully switched to it but expected it could become his main tool. Ansem had not yet tried it.
5. TJR, Frank and responsibility in meme markets
The hosts discussed TJR reviving an old token after being mocked while drunk at a wedding. Ansem said it rose to about $40M and that TJR claimed he had neither bought nor sold, with the supply in his wallet having been sent to him. Banks said TJR had not sold from his main publicly visible holdings; Ansem acknowledged uncertainty about possible side-wallet activity.
Frank DeGods reportedly lost about $30,000 after buying the token and criticized TJR. Ansem rejected the description of this as “dumping on fans,” arguing that Frank was a sophisticated trader who knowingly bought a highly risky asset. Banks said Frank is unusually explicit that he can sell whenever he wants and that copy-traders accept that risk.
Both hosts rejected the strongest version of a claim that rugging and scamming had become socially acceptable, while agreeing that crypto has become more openly degenerate. Their conclusion was that financial freedom requires individual responsibility. Ansem added that TJR had previously declined, after a conversation with him, to pump and later rug a token that had been sent to him, yet still received hostility from Crypto Twitter.
6. Vlad’s supercycle thesis and onboarding
Banks quoted Robinhood CEO Vlad Tenev saying, “We’re at the beginning of a supercycle,” and discussing a blockchain with stock tokens as a primitive. The hosts connected this to Robinhood’s stated goal of broadening access to stocks, commodities and other markets globally.
Ansem’s institutional case included tokenized stocks, RWAs, stablecoins, regulatory work around the CLARITY Act and the fact that crypto ETFs are now operating rather than merely launching. His retail case was a timeline of reduced onboarding friction: Unibot made one-click Telegram trading easier in 2023; Friend.tech and Privy simplified wallet creation; Apple Pay and Gmail integrations now make it easier for new users to enter crypto and trade on-chain without waiting for a centralized-exchange listing.
He cited roughly 100,000 daily actives on FOMO and strong mobile activity for Pump.fun, arguing that greater retail and institutional participation could raise the ceiling for the entire market.
7. The Kennel Trader playbook
Banks explained that Kennel Trader built a 2020-2021 portfolio of dog and cat coins, ignoring majors and placing small amounts into many names through a detailed spreadsheet. The production team adapted the idea into a screen for coins that reach roughly $10M in market capitalization.
The chart discussed on air showed a 12.7x result for putting $1,000 into qualifying dog and cat runners, with a hypothetical $8.5M outcome if every exit were timed at the top. The hosts acknowledged that perfect exits are unrealistic but argued that the $10M threshold is manageable and filters out much of the noise from the roughly 30,000-plus daily launches.
Ansem’s pattern was: an initial hype spike, consolidation, a growing holder base, then higher lows and a break above the first major high. He cited Artificial Inu moving from roughly $5M-$15M, breaking a prior high near $20M and reaching about $270M-$300M. He said CASH and ANOM looked similar and framed the approach as momentum trading rather than trying to bottom-tick or top-tick.
8. AI creation and the death of the NPC
Tyler Bernabe, known as JBoog Creative, said he is based in Honolulu and has worked full-time as an AI creator for more than four years. He cited work with Ne-Yo and Will Smith, a music video for Raekwon and a 2024 Coachella main-stage appearance alongside Grimes.
He described starting with dance videography and discovering WarpFusion after someone asked permission to animate one of his videos. The tool required a Google Colab notebook and Python code, and its early output was flickery by current standards, but it convinced him to learn the medium.
Bernabe argued that complaints are louder than creation and that “slop” existed long before AI. His test is whether a work creates a feeling, not how it was made. Banks added the example of an authentic Monet being posted as AI-generated and receiving hostile responses, which they treated as evidence that much of the objection is tribal rather than aesthetic.
On games, Bernabe predicted that AI would enter Unreal Engine development within a few years and become a net benefit for players. Banks imagined a GTA-style Miami populated by a small number of human players and millions of AI agents with personalities and relationships. Bernabe called this “the death of the NPC.” They also discussed the unsettling possibility of children forming relationships with undisclosed AI characters in games.
9. Net Net Capital and treasury-backed games
Al Dunlap described Net Net Capital as an improvement on earlier treasury and M3M3-style models. The central idea is to make trading, rather than only token issuance, a revenue engine for the treasury. Banks summarized three revenue sources as trading taxes, bonds that add RWAs or stocks to the treasury, and revenue from games.
Ansem said staking emissions were roughly 1.2% but only paid when fully diluted valuation was at least 1.75 times treasury value. Dunlap said the contract was immutable, buybacks were built in and holders could redeem backing if the token price fell to the treasury value. The stated objective was to make treasury growth outpace inflation.
The treasury was described as having grown from roughly $600,000 when Ansem first noticed it to about $11M roughly a month later, with Banks saying it had recently been adding around $1M per day.
The Boardroom, a PvP split-or-steal game, was said to have generated $250,000 of Microsoft stock purchases, 900 wallets and 5,500 sessions in its first 15 hours, with a jackpot near $30,000. A prior Subway Surfers-style game opened a 100x NVIDIA long and used collected coins to increase margin; the hosts said Robinhood Chain gas doubled after it launched.
The comparison with DeFi Kingdoms was that the game itself was enjoyable, but its inflationary JEWEL token eventually collapsed. Net Net’s thesis is that games can instead be built around RWAs and treasury growth. The team also discussed an MMORPG, NFT “loot cases,” two collections that had reportedly trended number one on OpenSea and one NFT sale at $50,000.
10. Integration over listings
Dunlap argued that crypto teams focus too much on whether Coinbase, FTX or Robinhood will list their token. His preferred question is whether a product can be integrated into a major platform. In his vision, users eventually contribute revenue to the treasury through games without even knowing what NET is.
Banks described recruiting traditional game designers by offering crypto’s token-holder community as an initial distribution channel. He said the team could ship products quickly with AI tooling and that token holders could provide an initial player base. Ansem compared the opportunity to building an Xbox Live-style trading layer and said such a platform could be extremely valuable.
The hosts also connected this to DeFi summer: stablecoins, RWAs and tokenized stocks could create a new wave of on-chain applications, while AI tooling lowers the cost and time required for developers to build them.
11. Will Clemente: Bitcoin, financial repression and Zcash
Will Clemente described moving from Warren Buffett-style discounted-cash-flow investing into Bitcoin after COVID, later co-founding Reflexivity Research with Anthony Pompliano. He said the firm was acquired by DeFi Technologies in an all-stock deal that reached a low-eight-figure value at its peak. At 24, he now manages his own portfolio.
He said Bitcoin bear markets usually bottom when sellers run out rather than when a new catalyst appears. His three overhangs were quantum risk, digital-asset treasuries and Bitcoin’s relative underperformance. He argued that momentum sellers had already rotated out months earlier, that quantum risk would be priced before it was fully resolved and that Bitcoin being roughly 50% below its dollar high and 70% below its gold-denominated high represented meaningful discounting.
Clemente’s broader macro thesis was financial repression. He cited more than $40T of US debt, rising long-term borrowing costs and yen-related Treasury-market risks. He argued that policymakers may hold rates below inflation and encourage assets such as Bitcoin and gold while discouraging escape from government debt. He cited Executive Order 6102 and postwar UK restrictions as historical examples, reporting these as his framing.
He also argued that stablecoins could let the government channel more demand into T-bills and that this helps explain support for the CLARITY Act. His explicitly speculative “tinfoil-hat” idea was that the US may prefer Bitcoin to remain within US jurisdiction, even if it does not directly hold all of it.
For Zcash, Clemente said his portfolio was roughly 65% BTC, with ZEC less than one-tenth of that amount. He described ZEC as Bitcoin beta plus a hedge against quantum concerns and said ZEC/BTC could benefit if the “1% of BTC” meme develops. He also said the rise of socialism could be bullish for both BTC and ZEC, while Banks agreed that hard assets have historically outperformed cash over long periods.
12. The closing allocation
The hosts ended by repeating a relatively simple allocation framework: Bitcoin, Zcash, PUMP, Solana, HOOD and Hyperliquid as the main positions, with a smaller allocation for speculative trades. They acknowledged that crypto can still experience a 30% down day and that volatility is both the primary risk and the source of opportunity.
Full transcript
Z, what’s good? How are we doing, bro? Markets are up.
Up, bro. We are fucking up. Let’s go.
I asked the pre-chat this, and obviously it’s a little more Banks-coded, but we need to ask: especially if you’re watching on Kick or Twitter right now, who’s up? Who in the chat right now has made money watching the stream?
If you’re in the chat, have you made money watching the stream? I need to know. If you’re listening and you’re trading, you have to be up.
You have to be, bro. And be honest, too. Don’t just lie blindly.
Down a house, brother.
Isn’t that a fucking lie? Down a house on what?
The degenerate fucking man. These kids are like, “Listen, guys, you have to stop trading the fucking low-cap, $50,000 coins and trying to hit the—” You don’t have to do that. You don’t have to do that, brother. I’m up 7 figures this month, man.
I’m FaZe Banks. I’m 40 years old. I’m fucking—[laughter] Okay. I attribute a lot of that to simply being the host of the show. By the way, this isn’t in 30 different trades. This is just with decent volume, mainly across Pump, Zcash, and Hood. The Hood call was phenomenal, brother.
1. The Robinhood Revenue Lag
Hood’s a smash, bro. Hood’s a smash. The thing is, whenever this happens—when traditional companies start working on and integrating crypto—it always lags super hard because you have to think about the suits who are watching these companies. They’re not on-chain like us. They don’t see Zcash at $300 million. They don’t see Artificial Inu at $300 million. They don’t see the chain making $4 million.
When you see that, you see it as earnings. You know that this is all happening on Robinhood Chain, and they’re actually making a ton of money. This new revenue isn’t going to be reported until November 10th, bro.
Exactly. That’s where I think our edge is. People in this chat, that’s where your edge is. If you’re tapped into this shit, there are opportunities to make free money, brother. This isn’t a low-cap.
This is a $100 million company.
Yeah.
You called it yesterday, almost 24 hours on the dot. Where the fuck is the tweet? I had it up earlier, but I don’t have it in front of me. We have to find it and talk through this because it just happened. If I were you, I’d be spamming the screenshot of this tweet all day today. [Laughter] Nothing else. Tweet it every 10 minutes.
Because this is fucking crazy, bro. This is like—here it is. I got it.
Baker? Or two-box left?
Yep. Here we go. You said this, by the way, chat. This is important. This might be the most important part of the fucking tweet. You posted this at 12:53 p.m. yesterday. Read it.
I said, “There’s always a lag when traditional companies add new crypto integrations because the suits don’t see the data until late. I believe Robinhood will be a great bet here, as the chart is already coiling off the bottom and they’re adding a significant new revenue line with their Layer 2 blockchain through Robinhood Crypto. All-time highs plus 50% in Q4.”
It was right under this fucking diagonal resistance. I tweeted it at 12:53 p.m. Pacific time. It did not go a tick lower. It opened this morning at around $111, and now it’s at about $124—up 15% on the day, which is crazy for a fucking $100 billion stock. It added $15 billion in a day.
I think Robinhood’s a great spot. We’ve been talking about Robinhood Chain doing really well over the past few weeks, and that’s actually converting into revenue based on how much the blockchain is making from all that activity. That’s obviously going to feed into their earnings reports in November. Nobody’s really paying attention to this except for crypto people, so that’s why you have a lag between when the trade starts to catch up and the actual data happening in the market. Robinhood’s done a great job.
Again, this was at 12:53 p.m. You said this yesterday, and we just have to go into it. Let’s check where the stock is right now. It’s up 17% today. [Laughter] It’s a $100 billion company.
For the new guys in the chat, how much money needed to get pumped in? How much volume did Robinhood need to see today for it to go up 17%?
A lot. Roughly how much?
A lot of fucking billions of dollars. Billions of dollars had to go into this stock for it to move this way and this aggressively. You called it a day ago.
Look at this, bro. Look at how fucked up this is. [Laughter] To the tick, bro. You said this at 1 p.m. I don’t even know how the fuck—I had it up before I showed the pre-chat. Oh, right here.
Guys, I called it right before the market closed, and after-hours it started ripping. It closed at $106. After-hours, it was around $109. Then, premarket, it hit around $111 or $112. It’s been straight up.
Right here. Look. September 2nd. Look at the little bottom tick. It didn’t go one fucking dollar lower, brother. You tweeted that 7 minutes before this tweet.
We’re 7 minutes before this. That’s fucking crazy.
Thank you. Thank you.
We’re cooking, bro.
We are absolutely frying. Frying. I mean, the macro is majorly fucking—there’s nobody on Earth better than you. Period. You just have it. It’s on some Tom Brady shit.
2. UNIPCS Takes Over Memecoins
As crazy as all this is, we tried to have UNIPCS on today, but, to my knowledge—to our knowledge—he’s not voice-doxed. I didn’t know that was a fucking thing, bro.
We need to send him a fucking voice synthesizer, the thing that fucks up his voice so it’s really deep.
Let’s do it.
Yeah, some voice changer shit. We need to get him on, bro. UNIPCS, how do you feel about that, brother? We need you, because between you and Z, when it comes to trend trading—can you explain who UNIPCS is and what he’s done over the last week?
Yeah. He calls himself Bonk Guy on X, on Twitter, but his actual @ is @UNIPCS. He’s a really good trader. He’s made a lot of money in crypto over the course of the cycle, but last cycle he kind of blew up because he was much more public about sharing the P&L on his trades.
A lot of people weren’t sharing their P&Ls publicly last cycle. He was one of the guys saying, “No, I’m hitting this. I’m in this with size, and this is how much I’m up.” He rode a lot of those positions throughout the bull market.
The first one he hit was BONK. I think he made around $10 million, or had an unrealized P&L of more than $10 million, on BONK and was super bullish there. Then he hit WIF, I think from below a $10 million market cap, and made a few million on that. He hit Farcoin really well. I think he hit GOAT as well, along with a few other on-chain trades.
On all the on-chain trades he hit, he had his thesis public while he was entering with size, then shared the P&L all the way up. He fell off a little bit toward the end of the cycle because he stayed bullish.
This tweet is fucked up. I’m sorry I forgot you.
This is fucking—
We’ll get into it in a second. Finish your thought.
Yeah. He was up a ton. He made a ton last cycle. He gave back some of his P&L on 10/10. A lot of people got wrecked on 10/10, and he was one of those people who had an open leveraged position. As you know, the market nuked like crazy, so some of his positions got fucked on that.
He’s still very good execution-wise, especially with the on-chain stuff.
I just opened his FOMO.
What was it?
$15 million. He’s up $5 million. [laughter]
Look at that—last month.
He’s up $5 million in the last 24 hours. Last month, he was up $12 million in 30 days.
He’s number one by a fucking sick margin. He’s up 8 figures in a month.
In a month.
It’s insane. He’s up $12 million in a month.
It’s insane. He’s up 10,000% on PONZ. That’s why this tweet is so fucked up, by the way. He’s up 10,000% on PONZ. He’s up 250% on USELESS because he keeps adding. He’s just adding, adding, adding. [laughter]
On MARS, he’s up 172%. And then on Base Cat, he’s up 117%. All of these positions are either 7-figure or multi 7-figure positions.
Yeah. Crazy.
The micro-cap, small-cap memecoin stuff—this kid, is there anybody better? I don’t know. I don’t know who’s better than him publicly. I don’t know.
He’s hit way too many times, bro.
And all these positions are up in the last 24 hours, by the way. He tweeted this out last night at 9:00 p.m.
Yeah.
Smart tweet, by the way, because he hit all the different chains. There’s capital on all these different chains that doesn’t want to go to other chains, and he’s already the main character right now, crushing it. He knows that there are people who want leaders on their own chains to do well. This is a really good tweet.
It’s insane. It’s insane.
We’ll just go line by line, since he tweeted this. PONZ is up 42% since he tweeted this.
Damn.
USELESS is up. This is the Solana meme, a big-cap Solana meme. It’s at $185, and in the last day it’s up 52% since this tweet.
But it’s crazy because it’s just at the start of the market, too. That’s the really crazy part, bro. The market is now starting.
MARS in the last 24 hours is up 61%. Of these 4 calls—Base Cat, what’s BCAT doing? Base Cat is up 63%. So, PONZ is up 43%, USELESS is up 52%, MARS is up 61%, and BCAT is up 63%.
And again, these aren’t super-low-cap coins.
They’re not. All of them are over $10 million. I mean, PONZ—
Well over $10 million. Well over $10 million.
I mean, I think the lowest-cap one is Base Cat at $55 million, right?
$55 million. Yeah, MARS is at $100 million. They’re almost all at $100 million—$100 million, $185 million. And PONZ is a $600 million market-cap coin. This is absurd. I mean, bro, he’s the micro-cap guy.
And when I’m saying micro, I mean the micro market. You guys have to start a fucking little group chat. We’ve got to talk to this guy. Apparently, he can’t dox his voice. Who is this guy?
I actually am in a chat with him, bro. I’m in a few chats with him. The thing is, he’s been saying this for a minute, too. He was pilling me hard on PONZ. He was pilling me hard on USELESS. He’s been consistently saying all this stuff for a few weeks, and now they’re starting to hit as the market turns. He’s crushing it, bro. He’s a beast.
Unbelievable. Listen, until a new method is unlocked or something’s disproven, I think you should just follow closely what Z is talking about as far as majors and the macro stuff. Then, if you want to be a fucking degenerate, have fun, and be a fucking freak, Unipcs is clearly that guy, right?
Bro, he is crazy.
Who the fuck is this guy, by the way? Voice doxxing—I didn’t even know this was a thing. We bring him on the show and it’s just Morgan Freeman. [laughter]
Imagine somebody actually really famous—so famous, branded as fuck—
Voice doxxing—what? Who are you? Mike Tyson. He comes on, and it’s Mike Tyson trading fucking 8-figure memecoins. “Mike Tyson’s up $11 million on this one.”
Imagine—
It’s not.
That’d be fucking funny, bro. Mike Tyson’s up $11 million on FOMO.
It’s crazy. [laughter] Unipcs, put a fucking voice changer on and jump on the show next week. It would be amazing to talk to you.
3. Social Trading Finds Its Edge
Are we still feeling this way about Robinhood? The way I’m thinking about it is, 80% of my holdings and my portfolio in crypto right now is pretty evenly distributed across Bitcoin, Zcash, PUMP, Robinhood, Solana, and Hyperliquid. Does this sound—
That’s great. You’re covering all the bases, bro. You’ve got the fucking Hyperliquid exposure to the perps side of the market. You’ve got PUMP, which is exposure to on-chain degenerate activity and the social-trading thesis. Bitcoin and Zcash have obviously very explainable theses, and I think HOOD is exposure to a TradFi company.
One of the reasons I was so bullish on Coinbase at the beginning of last cycle was that Coinbase was the main leader in exposure to crypto as a stock in the U.S. I was like, “Oh, this is an obvious trade. They’re going to benefit from all the retail activity.” I think Robinhood is also a great trade in that way.
As we talked about earlier, their L2 making $4 million a day is not priced into the stock at all. Not even a little bit. That’s why I think part of the reason it got repriced a little bit today is that people are realizing that. But if that continues—
$4 million a day.
Oh, yeah. Okay.
$4 million a day, bro. That’s adding over $1 billion to their bottom-line annual revenue. They make around $4.5 billion a year. That’s like adding 25% to their revenue.
I had a conversation with somebody about this new revenue line yesterday. Do you think Robinhood ever throws its hat in the ring in a very aggressive way on social trading?
I think so.
Really?
I think so. Actually, I think they already have a fucking—
That’s what I’m saying. They kind of do, but whereas FOMO, for example, reads like a social-media platform—the emphasis is on that. The entire product is clearly built around that vision. Robinhood is, like you said, more institutional: TradFi, KYC, and so on.
I just don’t know. I feel like the big winner in social trading is going to have to hard-commit to that. That’s going to have to be the product. Both products are individually valuable, and I just don’t know if I can ever see Robinhood being explicitly that front and center.
Yeah. I mean, what the FOMO founder said when we had him on was that on-chain has such an advantage with social trading because, when it’s not on-chain, you have to get people to opt into all the social features and share their positions, along with all the regulatory issues around sharing their positions.
But on-chain is immediate. You don’t need to do the KYC stuff. You can just share your positions, and it happens in real time. I think that’s why FOMO and some others already have an advantage on the social side of things.
I don’t know if they need to hard-commit. They’re definitely going to see what’s happening, but they’re also making so much money at the infrastructure layer. Do they really need to go as hard on the app layer, too, and have the app layer on the TradFi side?
But in terms of this new-wave generation, I think the more gamified it is and the more emphasis there is on the social stuff, the better. We keep talking about it, but on these apps and social platforms, people are blowing up locally on the platform.
We had Poor Goat on, and he’s blowing up there. Unipcs probably has more followers on FOMO, and he’s a small guy. Bonk Guy has 260,000 followers on X. How many does he have on FOMO? With a fucking million-dollar P&L, I hope it’s a lot, bro.
Almost half a million followers locally on this app—a trading app. We’ve never seen anything like that. You only ever see people blowing up locally when a new social app comes along that has something proprietary, which clearly people appreciate: this combination of social and finance.
It’s extending past that. All of Poor Goat’s motion, all of his attention, and his ability to move people are extending outside of that local app. He’s got motion on Twitter. He’s a fucking reply guy, like—what is it called? Ratioing people. I’m so old. [laughter] It’s ridiculous.
No, it’s true, though. It’s very rare for a new social app to be able to do that. I think it speaks to how well these social-trading apps are doing. When you gain motion in other areas because you blew up on that app alone, it’s insane. That’s crazy.
That’s what I’m saying. Wow. He just—
Hey—
He just gave me 800 subs. You’re the GOAT.
Talk about another GOAT, by the way. He’s trading publicly right now, too, and just swinging his dick around.
It’s sick.
Bro. Yeah, he was all about plumbers. He was super bearish for a while—bearish, bearish, bearish, bearish. Then he saw the market turning and flipped super hard, really aggressively, because I remember I was saying the meme-fi thesis makes sense. I’m like, “Bro, we have meme coins that are able to convert all this attention into value coins, and then you have the tradfi stuff and tokenized stocks happening, RWAs, and innovation on-chain happening. You combine both these things, you get meme-fi.”
I remember he replied to one of my tweets, like, “You don’t want to attach something that has a ceiling to a meme, because it’s going to put a ceiling on a meme.” I was like, “No, no, it’s not, bro.” He kind of replied to that, and then later he had his own thesis on why the meme-stock pairs make sense. I think he realized there’s actually a way better setup for it.
He’s a very, very smart guy. I’ve had long conversations with him in DMs and stuff. He’s one of the guys I lean on and ask for advice, especially on the more macro stuff. He’s been around for a long time, and he’s obviously been super successful.
I think he made a tweet along the lines of, “I’m going to throw some Vegas money onto one of these apps and just start fucking around.” He has a 7-figure portfolio, so he’s just like, “You know what?” I mean, subtle flex, bro. He printed last.
Clearly. Clips and use Run a Show, please. Someone’s saying, “Farm clips and use Run a Show.” That’s really funny. We can do that.
Damn, bro. Can’t we just talk about the market real quick?
We have to be fucking ripping, bro.
We gave people this, too.
Ripping, bro. Ripping.
We’ve been talking nonstop about this shit, too. Can we do a victory lap? Can we—
Can we farm some W’s for a second, please, bro? Please. I’m up $1 million, Michael Cat. Let me have some fun. It’s like—fuck, dude.
I’m shackled to the corner of the desk. I have a chain around my fucking leg. Michael Cat’s offscreen, pointing a shotgun at Ansem.
It’s crazy, dude. I’ve got a shock collar on my thigh.
It’s clip farm. Clip farm. It’s so funny.
That’s so good.
All right, let’s—yeah, we’ll go and run a show. We’ll go and run a show. We have 40 minutes.
Oh, man.
Sorry. First topic: Z, did you predict Kraken to launch a regulated Hyperliquid front end? Break this news down for us, please.
I did. Yeah, I actually saw a post from—what is the guy’s name? I forget the guy’s name. Where do we have the tweet here? Yeah, let me pull it up. I’m going to pull up the tweet so I can share it here. Is this the share screen? Hold on.
This is it—this tweet? I have your tweet. Look at your screen.
Yeah.
Yeah. Scroll down a little bit to the guy.
Yeah, Shondaa. So this guy, Shondaa—Devon S. is quoting them. They’re like, “Will Kraken be the first compliant HIP-3 deployer?” I looked more into it, and it actually made a ton of sense because Kraken has all the necessary licenses that Hyperliquid needs to be a provider in the U.S.
Through all their other acquisitions, they acquired NinjaTrader and Bitnomial, so they have all the necessary CFTC licenses: the FCM, the DCM, and the DCO. I quoted this and basically just shared the articles and the post from that.
And this was before the Trump mention.
It was right after the Trump mention, because Trump mentioned it, but they didn’t really say exactly how it was going to happen. I quoted this, and it made a ton of sense. It did play out like this—this is what they’re going to do.
It’s a super huge win for Kraken, to be honest. I think they came out of left field with this one. People didn’t really expect them to be the ones to get Hyperliquid regulated in the U.S., but this is great for crypto.
It’s really good because I think a lot of people see the centralized exchanges as competing with these decentralized perp exchanges, stuff like Hyperliquid. But when everybody’s on the same accord and working together to be as powerful a unit as possible in crypto, I think that’s when crypto is going to be the most successful.
You have people who have built great products and done a ton of great technical work on that side with Hyperliquid. Then you have the people who have done years and years of legwork on the regulatory side—getting all the necessary licenses, acquiring the right companies, and doing all the work there in Washington. When you combine both those things together, that’s when crypto is going to be the most successful.
I think it’s a really great partnership moving forward. Yeah, this was the tweet where I said I thought this was going to happen.
Just another day in the office.
Another day, bro. We’re hitting the high percent right now.
Is Michael Saylor just the de facto sell signal? Is Michael Saylor the worst trader on-chain right now?
Bro, I don’t think he is. I think he kind of got himself out of the weeds. He was in a really bad spot where he was going to have to pay a ton on the preferred stock that he offered to people. As we saw, he had to sell some Bitcoin and raise cash to do that.
But now he has a lot of runway. He has, I think, 18 months-plus of runway. If Saylor is able to benefit from Bitcoin’s momentum and Bitcoin going up, he’s going to be able to raise more cash to buy more Bitcoin.
He might have bought the top. I don’t know who the fuck does his execution. They should be fucking fired. I don’t know who they are or how they always top-tick.
I have a little theory about this. Since it’s a publicly traded company and there are obviously a ton of votes and a ton of people’s opinions that need to be considered, he’s not just sitting on a laptop clicking buy and clicking sell. Obviously, there’s some sort of process. Do you think that factors in at all?
I have no idea. I know they’re slamming the bid side, or they’re slamming the ask, at whatever price it’s at. It kind of makes sense that they’re the ones pushing up the price. That does make sense.
But you would think it’s more of an average over the week. Somehow, it’s always the top tick of the week. It’s really crazy.
Selling the bottom and buying the top. It’s crazy.
Yeah, it’s fucking funny. It is fucking funny.
He’s up today, though, on it.
He’s up, right?
And he’s good. It’s good to have him top-blasting. We want him top-blasting.
Have you used Grok Bot yet?
I have.
You did? Okay, so let us know. Listen, before you get into it, I haven’t tried it yet. That was supposed to be my homework this week. Sue me. We’re super busy, okay? I’m fucking trying. I’m trying. Michael Cat, please don’t blow my fucking head off.
I’m trying, Michael.
I’m really trying. But listen, I’ve heard from 80 different people that Grok Bot blows everything out of the water—better than ChatGPT, better than Claude, better than Clawdbot, all that shit. What’s your experience with Grok Bot? Is it goated?
4. Grok Bot Automates The Workflow
Yeah, it’s pretty cool. Essentially, what Grok Bot is—I think you remember earlier this year, all the Clawdbot stuff and all the Mac mini stuff, where people were buying these Mac minis so they could have a personal computer attached to their workflows and Claude. Somebody built a wrapper for all that to happen.
Grok Bot does that in the app. Within the app, you can have a different chat for each bot you’re working on, whatever it is, and it’s its own little personal computer. Grok and xAI have invested a ton on the compute side and a ton on the Cursor side of the app development. I think that’s actually one of the most underrated combinations of companies right now: xAI and Cursor.
It works really well. There’s a personal computer for each of these chats, and you can have it go and do whatever you want—connect to different apps that you have, connect to your Slack, your Telegram—the same way people were using the Mac minis to connect to certain things and handle a lot of their daily tasks. It works well. It’s better, TL;DR.
Yeah, it’s good. That’s good. I’ve got to get on it, man. I’ve got to get on it. So, you just use it locally on Twitter?
You use it on whatever you want. You can connect whatever workflow you want to it. You just have to sign in with your authentications, and once you’re signed in the right way, it will literally go and do whatever it is in that app as if you were the one doing it. But you can direct it to do whatever you want.
Gotcha. So you’re using this exclusively? You’ve switched over—this is your main one?
I haven’t switched all the way over yet, but I also just started using it. It seems like it’s going to be the main thing.
5. TJR Faces Accountability Pressure
Got it. TJR, who’s been a guest of the show several different times, is under fire. He’s been 1v10 million on CT. It seems like everybody on CT hates him.
And, yeah, why does this always happen, brother? Why is this always how it goes? I really feel like TJ would just be fucking around on Twitter.
Well, he’s obviously trolling.
He really is just trolling and fucking around. He already doesn’t like CT because CT already hates him and talks shit about him all the time.
So he knows that whenever he mentions the coin or something else on the timeline, it’ll go up, get buyers, and get attention. He’s kind of laughing at the people who are buying it, and they’re mad at him for not continuing to talk about it and selling afterward.
It’s kind of on the responsibility of the people trading it. He only really does this when he’s drunk and fucked up.
No, I think we’re entering an era where accountability and responsibility are going to start heavily falling on the individual. If you’ve been around crypto this long, you should know better, right? Frank replied and lost about $30,000 on this TJR coin.
To add context and color, TJR was at a wedding. I guess he was fucking wasted. I think Jack Duvall or somebody on Twitter made some slick comment about how he had no fucking motion, nobody cared about him there, and he was a fucking whatever. Typical CT shit, giving TJR shit, right?
TJR said, “You know what? Fuck yourself. I’m going to show you how much motion I have.” He revives his old, dead TJR coin—
—and pumps it to $40 million, and then he dumps it.
He didn’t sell any.
Oh, did he not?
No, he didn’t sell any of the coin.
Well, why is everybody so mad? He didn’t sell. That’s why he’s like, “You guys are fucking—this is dumb.” He didn’t sell anything from his main. I don’t know what he did on the side, but it doesn’t—
Well, we don’t know what he’s doing publicly on his main. Even then, I’m like—
He even said, “I didn’t buy or sell. The supply I have is what you guys sent me. When I talk about it, you guys buy it, and I stop, and you guys sell it, and you get mad at me.” That’s what he’s been saying.
No, but this most recent one, I know he said that out the gate. I know he didn’t sell anything out the gate, but I’m talking about 3 days later.
He didn’t sell in that time either.
Oh, wow. That’s fucking insane.
Well, yeah. Frank DeGods replied and was like, “You’re a fucking—” He said some shit; he was clapping at him. Whatever. This is why the framing sometimes of this shit is just disingenuous.
Is Frank DeGods a TJR fan? No. This isn’t somebody who watches his content. He’s not a fan. He’s not buying a TJR hoodie, right? The “dumping on your fans” or “fucking over your fans” narrative is just used and weaponized.
Obviously, Frank is a sophisticated, high-level trader. He knows what he’s doing. He knows the risks he’s taking. He knows what comes with buying a TJR token at $35 million. You know what I’m saying? He made that calculated risk and lost on it. Frank wins and is right way more than he’s wrong. That’s why he’s so rich, and that’s why he’s publicly on-chain crushing it.
But I think this FUD tweet is really relevant. I think it’s cool, and I wanted your opinion on it. “We’re entering a period of peak financial nihilism and degeneracy. Crypto is rapidly becoming the land of wolves where anything goes. It’s becoming socially acceptable to rug, scam, or PvP people through new and novel scam financial instruments.” What’s your opinion on this? I think it’s a little extreme to say it’s okay to scam people, because I don’t agree with that, and I think people should be held accountable.
I don’t agree.
Go ahead. I was—I don’t agree with the part that it’s socially acceptable to rug or scam people. I don’t agree with that, and I don’t think that’s considered socially acceptable yet.
I do think it’s kind of a gray area. It’s always going to be a gray area with meme coins and low-cap stuff, because you never know what people are doing on side wallets. You never know who’s using the coins. You never know how they’re trading them, or multi-walleting, or doing any of these other things, which is true.
But what’s really good about social proof is that if somebody talks about coins over and over and every time they talk about a coin it somehow always goes to zero—if they’re selling on the side and rugging afterward—then their ability to have people copy-trade them is eventually going to trend to zero. Nobody’s going to copy-trade somebody they’re always losing money on.
However, people who are trading low-cap, trading mid-cap, trading all this on-chain degenerate stuff, and making money consistently—people like Frank, people like Rowdy, all these traders who are doing well—they’re obviously going to get copy traders, because they’ve proven to be successful and profitable trading these on-chain coins. You can’t get mad at them for buying and selling, because they’re buying and selling the same way they would at any other time. I don’t think it’s like—
Frank is very transparent and aggressive on Twitter about it: “I’ll fucking sell whenever I want. Fuck yourself if you’re copying me. I’m selling whatever I want. I don’t give a fuck.” I think that’s fair. That’s how you should play it.
I do agree, though, that we’ve trended toward it being okay to be a lot more degenerate. That’s 100% true. But I think that’s just where the trend of markets is going in general.
Brother, the president is fucking talking about stocks. The president has a fucking meme coin. The president has a fucking NFT collection. The president has a whole bunch of shit that he just pumped.
Donald Trump stuck the world’s biggest straw into crypto and sucked out literally billions of dollars. Literally.
It’s on public record that he made a billion off it. So if the president of the United States is doing that, what the fuck is everybody else going to be doing?
Which is why—and again, I think the point that he’s making, and what we can all agree about, is that responsibility has to fall on the individual. If we want freedom—maximal capitalism—if you want to be free to fucking trade whenever you want, prediction markets and [expletive] and low-cap meme coins, you just have to understand the risk that you’re taking, and you have to accept responsibility for it.
You’re free to do what you want. If your IQ is low, if you don’t know what you’re doing, if you’re being a fucking degenerate, you’re going to lose all your money. That’s on you. It’s on you.
Yeah. I think what has to be transparent is that the people doing these things know these are the highest-risk assets that exist. Meme coins and low caps are the highest-risk assets you can buy. That’s why I always say you should have 70% of your portfolio in safer stuff and 30% in the more degenerate stuff, but never full-port anything.
Don’t full-port a $100,000 market-cap coin, because you will lose your portfolio, and you’re going to be sick as fuck during a bull market when everything 10Xs and 100Xs and you don’t have anything because you went all-in on something that was a micro-cap. So never do that.
I think it’s important to be transparent about that. As long as you’re transparent about what these trades are and what they look like, and just honest, I think it’s fine.
And one more thing, just right back to the TJR thing: I think Crypto Twitter honestly doesn’t give him enough credit, because when this cycle started, at the very beginning, TJR had the opportunity to rug that coin, sell it on a lot of people’s heads, pump it a lot higher, and then sell it later. He chose not to.
I had a conversation with him beforehand about what made sense to do, because he got sent these coins. He didn’t intend to do anything with the coin, and I told him what he should do with it. He listened to what I told him about it.
Even after he did that and was like, “No, I’m not going to draw attention to this and rug you guys later. I’m going to support the existing coins that are already out,” CT was still mad at him for it and still sent him shit. They remember they swatted his crib, bro. It’s his house. So why the fuck would he care about what CT has to say?
Also, if he does care and wants to be in better standing, or wants to really show people what’s up, I think there’s one play for him to make. On a completely undoxxed account—a fresh new account—run up a portfolio. Make some trades.
He could even do it on a doxxed account. I mean, he could, but then the cope will be, “People are copy-trading you.” If he does it on a clean alt account and doxxes it later, bro, if he went and traded for the next 30 or 60 days and said, “Yo, I turned $100,000 into $2 million,” what can you say? You know what I mean? If he does it in crypto, I think people would respect that a lot. I don't know if he cares to do that. It's really not his bag or hobby, but if he wanted to, you know what I'm saying?
I don't know. Also, production, you're asking us to farm clips, and then we have a clip—which I like a lot—of Vlad calling for a supercycle. That sounds like a great clip. That sounds like a great topic. But then you guys give us 30 links that are everything except for the clip of him calling for the supercycle, so I had to Google it. It's like, if you want us to do it, you know what I'm saying?
6. Robinhood Calls The Supercycle
So, yeah, that being said: To Banks' laptop. To Banks' laptop. Vlad, the CEO of Robinhood, found this live, bro.
Yeah, he said it at the bottom. He said it live on CNBC. No, Vlad's a Chad, bro. Vlad's a Chad.
Vlad's a Chad.
Vlad's a Chad. He said it live. They're crushing it, bro. They're crushing it.
Yo, they're crushing it.
Tokenization.
“We're at the beginning of a supercycle, and it's going to impact the entire financial system. Now, a month ago, we launched a blockchain outside the U.S., and this is our crypto blockchain. One of the interesting things about it is that it includes stock tokens as a primitive.”
No wonder this shit's ripping, bros. Now it starts.
I really like this whole narrative as well, that U.S. stocks—stocks—it's like, yeah, but also memecoins are fucking sick, up to 190, and they trade 24/7.
I mean, it's totally in line with Robinhood's initial mission statement, right? It's like, let's democratize trading. Let's allow people the freedom to trade whatever the fuck they want, right?
Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, their thesis is—I think they called it “the world is flat.” They want everybody to have equal access to everything, whether that's stocks or commodities. Everybody should be able to trade these things, and that's the reason they're focusing on these markets outside of the U.S., where people don't have as easy access to trading all these things. That's the reason they're focusing on the blockchain, which is a core ethos of crypto, by the way.
Bro, I want to trade everything. I want to trade Japanese markets. I want to do it all. I want to trade everything, and I think that's clearly the route they're going, right? You heard it: He explicitly called for a supercycle. Vlad Tenev, the founder and CEO of Robinhood. Do you agree?
I agree, bro. I've been saying it. I think there's going to be a lot more retail activity and institutional activity this cycle for a few reasons.
On the institutional side, the narrative of real-world assets coming on-chain, tokenized stocks coming on-chain, stablecoins moving more on-chain, and the regulatory work that they're doing with the CLARITY Act and all these other things—it's very clear that institutional capital and institutional companies have found that crypto has a purpose in all these things. All that capital is obviously going to move a lot more on-chain, and we already have the ETFs up and running now. Last cycle was just the beginning of these ETFs, but now we have all these ETFs up and running, which is another big thing.
On the retail side, I've been talking about this for months now, but mobile trading for retail is so much easier than it was at the beginning of last cycle and the cycle before that. One of the main core innovations last cycle was Unibot. Unibot in 2023 was the first Telegram bot that blew up with a token and allowed people to one-click trade things immediately. A lot of the discussion was happening in Telegram, but really, it was just the most sophisticated traders who had these bots and automated systems for trading these things. Unibot made it easy for anybody to do that.
After that, we had Friend.tech and Privy, which made it easy to sign up without having to save your seed phrase and all these other things. It made the wallet signup happen behind the scenes and made the mobile onboarding process a lot easier for people. When you combine both of these things now with Apple Pay, Gmail integration, and all these other integrations, it's really easy for somebody who doesn't currently have money in crypto to get onboarded to crypto and then trade anything on-chain instead of having to wait for something to get listed on Coinbase, Robinhood, or any of these main exchanges.
Only the people trading on-chain were really the super crypto-native traders. But now you have a lot more retail activity on-chain, which we've seen with 100,000 daily actives on FOMO. Pump.fun numbers are also through the roof on their mobile app now. That's going to continue to grow, especially as the market continues going up. This happening at the bottom, as we're coming out of the bear market, is insane.
I think retail is going to be a lot more active and institutions are going to be a lot more active in crypto this cycle, which raises the ceiling for everything across the board.
Yeah.
Well put, brother. Well put. We’ve got to get Vlad on the show, bro. Vlad, hop on the show. Let's talk for an hour. It'd be fucking epic.
Stop playing, bro. He follows me.
Yeah, it'd be epic. I think it's time for the Vlad episode.
We've got a big episode next week. I was teasing it pre-show, but you're going to be in L.A. That's going to be insane.
It's going to be fucking insane.
Next week—
It's going to be insane.
Next week, we've got to cook.
Oh, it's going to be fucking silly.
Again, we're either at the tip-top and shit's about to explode, or shit's about to get silly.
Supercycle.
Silly season. Silly season.
Speaking of silly, this is straight disrespectful.
So, obviously, it's football season.
They're going to smoke you guys, bro.
Dude, you're fucking—
They're going to smoke you guys, brother.
We were just in the Super Bowl. Drake Maye just got A.J. Brown. You are fucking bugging, bro.
They were just in the Super Bowl. They won the Super Bowl.
Yeah, but it shouldn't be 60/40, bro.
Yes, it should be more than 60/40. It should be like 75. Bro, what are you talking about? [Laughter]
You're bugging, bro. You're bugging.
What do you mean?
I don't agree with this. We're clearly split on this.
All right. Would we bet? You can bet on—
No, no, no. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. We'll revisit this.
No, because we're going Seattle. No, no, no. We're going Seattle because the one—
They're going to be at zero because they're going to lose. Watch.
So go trade Seattle. Trade Seattle. [Laughter]
You have it. Trade Seattle.
Okay.
Because, one, I'm going to emote. It's the emotional hedge for me, okay?
Okay.
And that's valid. We learned that from our little World Cup quant, and I love that.
But also, the one time you're going to be wrong on this show is going to be in this context, and I'm never going to let you live it down. You're going to be 10-1. Your record is going to be 10-1, and that one—[laughter]—it's going to be a dub for your boy. So let's go.
During the game, bro, I'm going to hedge. When Seattle goes up 21–0 at halftime and it's a 99% chance they're going to win, I'm going to take the Patriots. I'm going to trade that.
Oh, do some shit like that. If you do some shit like that, chat—
You hear this right now, chat. When the Patriots are down in the first half, I'm going to take a trade on the other side to hedge this.
I don't know if they're going to win. I don't think they are, but just know that if it's like that, it will be hedged. It will be hedged. It will be hedged. All right, fuck it. Rip Seattle. It's an emotional hedge for me. I don't believe it. I think the Patriots come out fucking strong. Drake Maye has A.J. Brown now. It's just like, I don't know.
A.J. Brown's a beast, bro. It's going to be a cool game.
Yeah, Polymarket. Shout-out Polymarket. We have that league, which is sick.
No updates on that because it obviously hasn't started. When does the league actually start, by the way?
Next week, right?
Yeah, it starts next week.
Wednesday.
Sick.
It's the first game of the season.
We're cracking. That was fun.
We did the draft. Yo, did you see this tweet that the intern on Market Mobile tweeted? Look at this—the Kennel Trader playbook.
7. The Kennel Trader Playbook
Deep lore: In the 2020–2021 cycle, when Dogecoin was going crazy and ripping to insane levels—higher than it had ever been in any other crypto cycle before, breaking all-time highs on the DOGE/BTC pair and across the board—everybody started deploying a ton of dog coins.
There was this guy named Kennel Trader on CT who was like, “Okay, I’m just going to build a portfolio of dog coins and cat coins, and that’s all I’m going to do. I don’t care about Bitcoin. I don’t care about ETH. I don’t care about majors. I’m going to build the most degenerate portfolio, put a little bit of money in each of these coins, and see how well they do.” He actually crushed it. He made millions of dollars in 2020. He was super early and really detailed about it. All of his entries were in this long-ass spreadsheet, and he put a little bit of money in each of them.
I explained this on a call randomly with our production team, and they were like, “Okay, we should make something that kind of replicates this strategy, but limits the number of coins that you pick.” As you know, 99% of these meme coins go to zero, right? But for the ones that reach and break above a $10 million market cap, there’s a decent chance that they just go insane.
I mean, look at this. What this articulates and shows you is that if you took a bet on every dog and cat runner that hit $10 million, putting $1,000 in each one, and then—
$500 at $100 million.
Yeah.
No, this is responsibly managing the position and selling—
12.7x. If you just blindly put $1,000 into every cat and dog runner and then responsibly sold off—
That’s actually insane.
Bro, it’s nuts. Obviously, this is very unrealistic, but if you sold the top of all of them—
$8.5 million.
But the point is that it’s actually been a valid strategy to invest at $10 million, which is super realistic. That’s manageable, right? You’re going to see these things at $10 million or whatever. Typically, I feel like the trader mindset is, “Can this graduate to the mid-eight figures? Can this be a $100 million outcome? Could this be a billion-dollar outcome?” That’s how people think about it.
But you could literally just blindly invest in $10 million dog and cat runners and make money—and make a lot of it. It’s 12.7x. I don’t know. That’s crazy. It’s cool that they made this, and it’s cool that this is a thing. It’s cool that this is real.
Yeah. At a high level, the thesis actually makes sense. This is what I’ve been saying for a lot of these on-chain coins. It’s very hard to trade new pairs. As you know, there are 30,000-plus coins that launch a day. Only a thousand of them—sorry.
Oh, good.
Only a few of them actually do well. But for the coins that are able to maintain attention after bonding and consolidate for a while after their first run-up and initial hype spike, these are the coins you actually want to pay attention to. This is a very limited selection of coins that are able to do this. Instead of choosing from 30,000 coins, you’re choosing from about 100.
What this chart is basically saying is that you eventually have the first blow-off top, where there’s a volume spike and an initial launch high. Then you have the consolidation period afterward, where people are deciding whether they’re going to buy this for the long term, building the holder base, and trading sideways for a while. When it starts making higher lows and higher highs, and starts breaking above its previous all-time high—its first spike—that’s when you need to start paying attention.
This chart was really good for Artificial Inu last week, two weeks ago. It was trading at $5 million, $10 million, $15 million, and then it broke its previous all-time high, which was around $20 million, and just went insane. As you guys know, it’s at around $270 million to $300 million right now. I think CASH looks very similar to this chart right now. ANOM also looks very similar to this chart, where they’re starting to press against the first high they made at their initial volume spike.
I think you have a lot more attention and a lot more volume coming into the space. You have to think about which coins these people are going to be trading. It’s usually the ones that already have a lot of attention, are pretty viral, and are easiest for people to buy. This is just a good strategy for on-chain coins in general. It can really apply to anything. It also applies to majors. It’s just a strategy for catching momentum instead of trying to bottom-tick or top-tick the chart.
Yo, what’s good, chat? How are we doing this week, chat? What’s up, brother?
What’s good?
Yeah, Moon is kind of saying a similar thing: pick the top 6 tokens. I think these are almost the exact same coins you were talking about.
Me?
Yeah. Well, it’s pretty similar—not all the way similar. He said Zcash, HYPE, PUMP, Lighter, and then CASH and ANOM. This is a great set of coins.
These are, by the way, my 3 biggest positions besides Bitcoin: Zcash, Hyperliquid, and PUMP.
Yep.
I have to give all glory to God—aka you—on the fucking Zcash pump. But I’m going to give myself a little bit of credit on the HYPE trade. I full-ported HYPE. Yeah, I full-ported, basically. I half-ported HYPE at $25.
I need something. Yeah, bro.
Basically right when we started the show. Yeah.
Yeah, I remember you texting me about it, and I was like, “Yeah, bro, it’s a good spot.” You actually flipped—you made money on both sides because you flipped SOL into it, right?
And flipped back into SOL.
Yeah, and SOL was higher. That’s a good trade.
I’ve actually been trading it really well. My Zcash chart looks like I can see the future, by the way.
Yeah, you went in and out of it.
And if I had traded that day when I was at $400 in that call—remember, I was like, “I might just fucking slam into this”?
It was like $270.
Oh, my God. If I had just hit that one, it would be sick. I’d be up big.
We have our first guest in the group. We have 4 more minutes of the show, so there are probably a couple more things that I can ask. All right, Z, I think you already did this at the beginning of the show, but can you walk us through your overall HOOD thesis? You put out an insane post yesterday. You called it out, and this $100 billion stock has moved up 17% in the 24 hours since you made the post. Just walk us through what you like about HOOD.
Yeah, I can walk you through it. Let me pull up this tweet. This is a good tweet on it.
This guy, Amit—if you guys don’t follow Amit, definitely follow him. He’s a great content creator and stock trader on the stock side. He does a daily recap every day of all the most important information going on in Stockland. He kind of put out this tweet giving me some credit for the Robinhood call.
The reason I’m bullish on Robinhood is that Robinhood obviously owns a ton of distribution with U.S. stocks and equities. They crush that. I think they have 25 million-plus daily active traders on that side, so they’re already crushing stocks and equities and making a good amount of money from that business. I think it’s around $4.5 billion a year in revenue right now.
Now they’re branching into crypto more aggressively. They’re doing prediction-market stuff, and they’re also doing on-chain stuff with their L2, Robinhood Chain.
Robinhood’s L2 has been picking up really aggressively over the past few months after its launch. They generated $34 billion in cumulative DEX volume, have 12 million addresses, and daily DEX volume recently hit $1.5 billion, which is crazy. They have more than 190 tokenized stocks live, and RWA activity is surging.
Their blockchain is making $4 million a day at peak, which would be another $1 billion in annualized revenue for the company. That’s huge. If they’re able to capture all the retail activity in stocks and also capture some of that activity in crypto, then the stock is going to re-rate a lot higher—not just because they’re making more money, but also narrative-wise, because it’s exposure to 2 very differentiated segments.
That’s the general thesis. I think they’re going to continue to do well. It seems like the team understands how to navigate crypto and support teams building on their chain without directly shilling things, which is a great skill to have. They also have a lot of good reputation on the institutional side with people who may not have a good perception of crypto. That may change because of Robinhood, and Robinhood is a clean way for those people.
Oh, I want to get exposure to crypto. I'll buy Robinhood or Coinbase, but I won't buy whatever coin. They benefit from those tailwinds as well.
Amazing. We have our first guest in the green room. We got through half of our topics, by the way, so we'll do 30 minutes with each of 3 guests and then circle back to the rest. There's a lot to get into, including the social stuff, how much the Twitter account is worth, and your back-and-forth with Ubermensch. It's a super interesting and, all things considered, very valid conversation to have.
Me and Uber.
Yeah, you and Ubermensch.
Uber's a GOAT, bro.
Yeah, he's really good.
I met him in person before.
Really?
Yeah. He came during the fires in L.A. He and another big trader pulled up with Malcolm and Frank and stuff, and I met him.
8. AI Creators Challenge The Luddites
Our first guest today is an AI creator, artist, and filmmaker. His name is Tyler JBoog. We're involved in the Luma and Venice Film Festival stuff, and AI content creation, film, and art are huge, hot-button, very controversial topics. Z and I have talked about this since the beginning of the show. I think it's way overhated. I don't understand it at all. I think it's inevitable.
We obviously encourage our chat—don't be a Luddite. Don't be the guy who's trying to burn down the cotton mill because you're accustomed to sewing by hand. It's going to happen. Everything you see in media is going to be produced in part by AI. I would take that bet. As a matter of fact, we are taking that bet.
We'll hear it from the perspective of a big AI creator. I think he has around 1 million followers on Instagram, and I'm pretty sure he's involved in some way, shape, or form in Luma. I could also be completely wrong and have all of that wrong. I don't know. Let's let him introduce himself. Tyler, how are you, brother?
What is going on, guys? Glad to be here. Glad to be here.
How was that intro?
Out of 10, how good was it? I give you guys an 8.5.
Okay, cool. Like an 8.5. I like that. That's a B. That's a B. Realistically, you're probably closer to a 75, which is fine. Still passing. We're still passing. But yeah, JBoog, introduce yourself and let the people at home know who you are, where you come from, and the kind of conversation you came here to have.
Yeah, guys. My name is Tyler Bernabe. I go by the moniker JBoog Creative. That's how I'm widely known across the creator landscape. I'm based out of Honolulu, Hawaii, and I've managed to build my whole little AI creator empire from my man cave here, right in the heart of Honolulu.
I've been doing this full-time for over 4 years. I've worked with people like Ne-Yo and Will Smith. I directed a music video last year for Raekwon from Wu-Tang Clan.
Will Smith. Are you the guy responsible for all the spaghetti videos?
I wish I could take credit for that one, but I worked with him well after the spaghetti thing.
Okay.
And then back in 2024, I was one of the first AI creators featured on the main stage at Coachella alongside Grimes.
Oh, that's cool. He's a homie.
Sick. This is exciting. I'm really excited to be here and chat with you guys. Shout out to Venice for not only bringing me on here, but also for everything they're doing in the AI community.
I'm stoked to talk to you guys about everything going on, because I heard what you said at the beginning, warning everyone against being a Luddite. You also used a couple of different ways to describe me—creator, artist, filmmaker, whatever. My general stance on that is, if you think what I do is art, it can be art. If you don't think it is, then it's not. The titles are all just semantics to me.
What is an artist at the end of the day? I would say you could boil it down and give it a broader label, like curator. Whether you're painting, creating music, or making films, you're curating. You're building worlds in your head, directing, and curating a vision and a vibe. There's obviously technical stuff to it, too, but at the end of the day, I feel like AI is obviously a tool that's going to be used across every market and in every facet.
I think the people who complain about this stuff—the complainers—are always going to be louder than the people who are actually creating things. We see that across every industry, no matter what. We see it even on Yelp. I can't remember the last time I went and wrote a good review for something I enjoyed, but everyone's super quick to write the bad review.
I wonder what the stats are on that. I wonder how many bad reviews on Yelp are produced versus good ones. I bet it's probably 5 to 1, 10 to 1, something like that.
My entire mindset is that the doom and gloom is just noise. What I've seen from the actual creator standpoint is the opposite of the doom and gloom that you read in every comment section across every social site.
I started off with my camera and my lenses, doing videography. I did a lot of work for Red Bull on the Red Bull dance side of things, traveling with them and filming and editing stuff. What I witnessed firsthand is the opposite of the doom and gloom that you read everywhere.
And that's typically a valid way to trade, by the way. Obviously, we're in markets and finance, and we're traders. Being outside of general consensus is typically where people make the most money or have the most success—in your case, by exploring options that people have written off, ignored, or are against.
It's exploring options that people have written off, ignored, or are against.
Yeah, I mean, valid. You spoke about the Red Bull thing. You've been working on doing things like this far before AI.
Before I stumbled into AI, about 4 or 4 and a half years ago, I was a full-time freelance videographer and editor.
Got it. So you were already doing this. Walk us through how you discovered this and why you've clearly focused your effort on it and are kind of front-running it.
Back around the time I discovered it, I was maybe at 10,000 followers on Instagram. I was doing dance videos of my local break-dance and street-dance community here in Hawaii. I saw an opportunity because I knew all these dope people—I was involved in street dance myself on the popping side of things—but no one here was filming, and none of the dancers I knew had great social-media content.
My mindset around that time was starting to shift around social media. I was starting to see that social isn't really social. This is the way to pave the career path and the career trajectory. Someone reached out to me, and there was this really fringe AI animation software at the time called WarpFusion.
To use it, you needed to go through a Google Colab notebook and do some Python code. It was not for the faint of heart or anyone who wasn't technically savvy. Someone reached out to me and asked if he could use one of my dance videos that I had filmed and edited to make an animation using this thing. I said, “Yeah, sure. Go for it. Just credit me.”
When I saw what he made, as rough as it was, the animation was flickery and crazy. By today's standards, it was total nonsense.
Thank God, though, because I feel like if this had been happening in 2022 or 2023, I'd be asking artists for permission to use their work. With clipping culture and the way people share content today, I feel like it's 1 in 1,000 cases where someone will actually reach out and say, “Hey, can I use this for something?”
So, I mean, that's cool.
That part of the culture is insane, bro. I personally think there's absolutely nothing wrong and nothing to be lost if you use something of someone else's by simply saying, “Hey, the original is from this guy. Go check him out.” There's nothing lost by doing that.
I don't think there is, either. I think it's more of a—I don't know.
It’s probably…
Things move so quickly. People are so fucking quick. Everything’s moving so quickly, and I just feel like it’s a matter of being lazy and just not caring, you know? People are screenshotting things, posting them, sharing them, and not bothering to cite just because of that. I don’t think it’s—I don’t know.
No, I totally agree with that. But I saw this animation that this guy made, and I was like, “Oh, fuck, this is fucking cool.” This isn’t like anything in After Effects or on the motion graphics side of things that I was into, and I was like, “I need to learn how to do that.” And that singular moment—that little thread that I followed 4.5 years ago—has completely transformed my life for the better.
Amazing. Amazing. I think you’re in the right spot. We preach it all the time on here. Obviously, to do what we’re doing—especially what this guy’s doing over here, my lovely co-host Ansem—you need some level of capital to trade with, right? So, obviously, we’re aware that some of the people watching the show might not have access to capital like that. You kind of got to work from the ground level: you got to go hustle, get a job, figure out some means and form of income, and then you can start thinking about trading it and how to manage it, et cetera.
And, yeah, I mean, we preach it kind of nonstop. I think if you’re in that position in your life, there’s really one answer in my mind that’s valid, and it’s AI. Then you can pair that with anything that you have experience with or that you’re interested in. There’s definitely room for innovation and room for you to go and build in markets with AI because so many people are behind on it or just waiting for it to catch up. It’s the internet all over again times 100, is what we believe, right? So, yeah, you sound like an example of that. Are you making more money than you’ve ever made? How’s your career looking? How’s all that?
This year has been exceptional, and it became exceptional without me even realizing when the shift happened. But I just don’t stop working. If I hit a wall—any wall I’ve ever hit in my career—I’m a fucking tugboat, bro. I just keep going until something gives, or I learn the lesson I need to learn to get past whatever it is.
Chat, I swear to God, this is the method. That’s all you got to do. What the fuck is it?
For an answer, bust through the walls. No, but seriously, it’s unfortunate seeing the cope sometimes and seeing people overcomplicate this shit or just find any excuse to accept the fact that they’re not giving it their all or their full effort, because it really is that. I don’t know, man. That’s amazing. Compound every day, bro. No matter what you’re doing, a couple hours every day. Even if whatever 9-to-5 job you’re working is taking up a lot of your time, you have an hour a day to get better at something. You do.
Doubling down, tripling down, and getting incrementally better. The fuck compounds. What’s the quote? If you’re 1% better every day, everybody has the ability to do that. I don’t give a fuck who you are; you could be the most successful guy, you could be a fucking bum. You have the ability to be 1% better every day. And 1% better every day over a year, you’re 37 times better than you were at the beginning of the year. You know what I mean? That’s a fucking huge number.
Yeah, I mean, I did some quick fucking napkin math, but, yeah, chat, it’s something like 365%. You would be 37—yeah, 36.5% better over time. Sorry.
But someone in chat—the kids are fucking… Someone in chat said 365% better is 3.65x. You’re correct, but that’s just not the way compounding things works. If you’re 1% better the first day, and then you’re 1% better on top of that, you’re 1.1% better, then you’re 1.2% better. It compounds.
It’s not that way either, though. It’s actually not that, either.
Whatever. Yeah, it’s definitely not that. You’re not only 3 times better. Let me ask ChatGPT, bro.
No, no. Yeah.
If you’re 1% better every day—better every day—how much better are you after a year?
Epic. So, are you going to do the Luma thing?
Well, I'm one of the judges.
Oh, sick. Okay. So, we're judges as well, aren't we? Or am I...? We're hosts or judges or something. We're doing something.
You are.
Good question. Cool. [laughter]
How many judges are there?
I think there are, like, 5 or 6. I know the names off the top of my head: myself, Void Stomper, Gossip Goblin, Black Light, and Heavy.
These are all notable, established AI artists. Dude, Gossip Goblin's about to have the first AI film in movie theaters.
Oh, amazing.
Damn—
That's cool. What's it called?
That's fucking lit.
That's a question for him, but that's coming.
Okay. Is there a trailer out, or is it, like—
If you go to his YouTube and just type in Gossip Goblin, he has fully fleshed-out episodes that are 20 minutes long. You watch them and completely forget you're looking at AI.
That's really cool. We're going to have to look at that. Is there a way for us to invest in this AI art that's happening and blowing up? I feel like this is at ground zero, right? If you think AI is going to get a fucking ton better over the next few years or the next decade or so, do you think AI art is going to get a lot better and people are going to be okay with consuming AI art?
So here's my prediction on the whole thing: we've been force-fed what people would call slop far longer than anyone was doing anything with AI. Let's be honest about most of the streaming platforms and the things that were being put out by human hands. Let's be very honest about that and not nitpick just because something is made with AI. That being said, slop will always exist. I personally don't care how something is made if it makes me feel something when I look at it.
Brother, there's a famous tweet. We pulled up this tweet, and it blew the fuck up. Somebody tweeted out a Monet—an authentic Monet painting—and said that AI did this. The overwhelming response was obviously hateful and super negative, and it was a fucking Monet. It's like—
Exactly.
It's insane. But hold up a fucking second. This Gossip Goblin guy is fucking cracking. This video has 9 million views. This is insane.
Absolutely insane. His work is crazy.
This is all AI.
Yeah.
This is cool. Z, are you seeing this shit?
Yeah, I'm watching this. It's nuts. How do you differentiate [screaming] with how the AI video gets generated when a majority of it is from text? By the way, you have the 20 or 30K or whatever. This is insane.
Yeah, no. Most of these things—almost all the ones you're seeing that are really well made—are starting from—
Images that were generated in very specific compositions, framing, and cinematic language. Then you feed in the prompt to control the camera and the action from that scene. So, there's—
Can I ask you a question? This is hyper-realistic. What I just watched looks almost indistinguishable from real life—genuine real life. It almost, in a weird, fucked-up way, looks like better quality than real life. I don't even know how to explain that.
We just watched GTA 6's trailer go fucking viral. GTA 6 has what I would call the biggest platform on planet Earth. I think they're bigger than Elon Musk and Donald Trump. GTA's motion is unreal. It's still, like, number 7 on Netflix, by the way—a fucking video game trailer—and it came out a week ago, which is just silly. The quality is really good. It's super impressive, but it's nothing compared to this.
So my question is, could you, in theory, pair this tech with a game like GTA and ramp that up exponentially to this type of quality? Wouldn't, in theory, all this translate to video games as well? Like, shouldn't you be able to?
100%. Now, while I'm not really familiar with game development, I can tell you that in the next couple of years, we're going to see an insane amount of this leaking into Unreal Engine development and stuff like that. At the end of the day, I think it's going to be a net win for everyone that—
Of course, bro.
—plays video games, period.
There's some weird Black Mirror shit. I actually just saw something. Roblox also has a notorious dark side in the subculture, where weird fucking people who prey on kids hang out on the game because there are so many young kids on it. It's really fucking dark and unfortunate, obviously, but someone's dad—
—built a server that has exclusively AI characters in it but didn't tell his son. So it looks, operates, and feels like it's just an open-world multiplayer thing. His son is, like, 10 years old, and he's making friends in the game, which I think is a little dystopian and weird, to be honest. It's a little fucked up.
I just think about my own experience. I met some of my best friends on games, on Call of Duty and stuff, and I feel like it's a bit weird that his son might, at the age of 15, find out that his best homie on Roblox was fake the whole time. It's like The Truman Show, you know what I mean? So that's a bit weird to me, but I don't think it needs, like, GTA, for example—an open-world RP GTA server where there's a million people in New York City or Miami or whatever. Miami is a city that has 7 million people in it.
Imagine a server with 100 of your friends on it, and then the rest of the 7 million people in Miami are all AI, like Claude-level agents who can develop personalities, engage with each other, and build shit—
Trade. Like, that'd be fucking insane. No—
It—I mean, it's going to be the death of the NPC, basically.
Hey, the death of the NPC—I agree. Why would that be?
Yeah. Why would we have NPCs when you could just have fucking infinite Claude bots running around? That sounds amazing to me, where they learn—I don't know. It's cool. They can go build shit, like—
I think we're in the most exciting time—
—easily, to be a creator. For the people who are very doom-and-gloom about AI, if anything, if you're a human artist doing art and your art is good, everything that's happening on the AI side should only make what you're doing that much more valuable. And so, I don't think there's anything to be doom-and-gloom about. If anything, they should be mad at the corporations that are actually using it to replace jobs rather than getting mad at the people just using it to create content. Nothing I'm doing is taking a job away from anyone.
No, dude. You're on point. Don't listen to any of that. I mean, this is going to be the ultimate—
It's the most positive thing you could do. It's all fucking noise, good or bad, by the way. Just ignore everybody's fucking opinion. Follow your intuition. You're 100% on point on timing. Not that you don't already know this. I'm not teaching you anything new, but I'm saying that and echoing it for the chat and the people listening. Put the blinders on. Fuck everybody else.
And again, holy shit. First of all, somebody in chat linked this video, this NVIDIA DLSS 5 thing for the new NBA 2K27. Bro, this is fucking bananas. Look at this. It's on NVIDIA's actual YouTube channel. What? Oh, I'm not sharing it. I'm fucking—hold on. Wait, I don't want to spoil it. So, yeah, it's on NVIDIA's actual YouTube channel. Shout-out to whoever just linked this in the chat. Appreciate you. Insane.
This is fucking insane.
It's going to get crazy.
It is going to get crazy, bro—real quick. In our little chat bubble thing, I put an Instagram link. This was the last video that I did with Venice.
I don't know if you guys can pull it up—
—if you guys can see that. I was actually able to take myself—and you'll see in the video—my actual office, and then pull myself into my own anime.
I like it.
And it's just like—
I know. You know what's funny? The intro that we do for this show—the waiting screen for the show—is this, our backdrop, whatever. But it's all done in AI, and somebody took a video of me, and it zooms out from this into the front of the desk and then transitions seamlessly into real life.
Does that make sense? It's like the same thing. It's like I'm exiting video into reality. Yeah.
We need to see this.
Can you guys link it in the chat? Link it in the chat. Is it this? Oh, this is cool as fuck. Hold on. This is it.
Yeah.
Okay, hold on. Let me refresh it. Do you know Japanese?
No. [laughter]
Pretty good. Word.
Oh, this is fucking sick.
What? That shit is nasty. [screaming]
Oh my God. [laughter]
No way. It's cool. Damn. I have to follow you on Instagram.
Yeah, for real. I'm really happy we had you on, by the way.
Hell yeah. No, thank you guys for having me.
This style of anime has been around, but they don't make—
See, how crazy was that, by the way?
Sick as fuck. [laughter]
I just followed you.
Bro, when it comes to anime, I like my anime ultra-violent, super out there—Berserk-style craziness. No studios are making that, but that's what I want to see.
By the way, it's really cool. We could just do it ourselves.
Yeah. [laughter]
Damn. Super cool. That was—
No one needs permission anymore. Just go make the shit you want to see now. It's fair to say we're still in the very early stages of this—the ability people have to do this. People with voice prompts are going to be able to create brand-new IP, full-blown movies, avatar-quality movies. That's obviously where shit's headed, right?
I think the power is going to return to the people who are best equipped to curate and direct shit, right? It's like—
I don't know. It's cool.
It's like somebody who doesn't have arms today can't technically paint you a picture, you know? But in the future, they're going to be able to. I don't know. That's the way that I like to think about it.
Bro, I use this voice-transcription software called Wispr Flow. I don't—
So do I. It's the best. It's the best.
Wispr Flow—free brand deal, by the way. Wispr Flow is incredible. [laughter]
I just sit here and go back and forth with Claude. I know a bunch of people are constantly using the phrase “AI psychosis” online over and over and over. Bro, mental health issues were mental health issues long before AI.
It's all code, brother. It's all code. Yeah, it's all ridiculous. It makes sense that we talk about this on the show. All anyone's hearing about is how AI has taken their jobs and is going to fuck them over, and people are obviously scared. The current state of the world and shit—I get it. I understand.
But the response should not be to write it off or resist it. The response should be to front-run it, get ahead of it, and be the early adopters and early builders with it, obviously. You're a fucking amazing individual example of this in something that traditionally doesn't really have any overlap with tech, right? It's like—
I mean, aside from camera gear and editing software, you always need to make sure your computer is up to the task of whatever type of footage you're working with.
What this technology and these tools did for me is give me the ability to realize ideas I've had in ways that I never would have been able to, because I don't draw. I was never called to pick up a pencil, but I was called to edit. I was called to piece together stories and tell stories with my camera.
Now I can explore whatever medium I want to with all these crazy, far-out ideas I have.
Cool. Well, it was an absolute pleasure having you on the show. On that note, is there anything else you'd like to say?
No. Shout out to Venice AI for all their support in the community. If you guys are not creating with AI yet, you should definitely check them out. You can use my code JBooks Creative and get 15% off your first month. And you guys can find me on all platforms, JB OGX Creative. Yeah, bro. I just want to keep making dope shit.
Thanks for having me. I followed you. We're going to stay in touch, and we're obviously going to be guest judges on this thing. I'm looking forward to seeing you and where you go. I would take a bet on you. I'd fucking slam the chart. I really would.
Slam long.
Appreciate you guys. Take care.
Take care. And, bro, even on that note, you said, “How do we invest in this?” I think, unironically, top whatever right here—Venice AI platforms like Venice AI, right?
Yeah, it is. That's what they're using a lot of. I think a lot of the art stuff is where it gets tricky with the censorship, because there are certain things that it literally will not let you do with image and video creation. Obviously, Venice is one of the—
Well, look historically at the early adopters and supporters of new tech. As far as the internet goes, social media—who killed it in entertainment, media, and the arts in the last 20 years? It's fucking Netflix. It's Spotify. It's the platforms, right?
Other than that, if you individually want to take a bet on a guy like JB, you have to just go manage him or invest in his personal thing. It's kind of tough. You know what I mean? How do you invest in Drake? You really can't. But you can invest in Spotify, right?
You can invest in Venice.
Facts.
Facts.
Who else? What else would be the— I guess the OpenAI, the Anthropic, the—
Bro, they're coming out of $2 trillion.
True. True. Fair. What's Venice trade at? A billion dollars?
$1.5 billion, I think, or something like that.
Something like that.
$1.5 billion. Nice. Nice. Good for them, man. That's fucking awesome. Eric Voorhees—fucking goat.
Net Capital is getting ready in the green room. Z, I'm going to pass it to you so I can take a piss. No one's surprised. By the way, production wants to make a cardboard cutout of me holding a sign that says, “Be right back. Took a piss.” I think it's a great idea, so, in support—
I'm in support. I'm passing it to you.
All right, what's good, chat? Oh, wrong tab. Hold on. Give me a second. Back. We're back. We're back. How are we doing, chat? What's up, Kick? How are we living? How are we feeling?
Yeah, charts are looking good, man. Charts are looking great today. What a candle for Bitcoin. What a candle. What a candle. I swear, once this thing gets above $83,000—I've been saying this shit for weeks, bro—once it breaks above this range high, it's off to the races.
Zcash looks amazing. Look at these charts, bro. ETH looks amazing. Damn. Yeah, everything looks good. Hyperliquid, Zcash in price discovery. Bitcoin, ETH, SOL pressing pretty important levels.
PUMP pulled back a bit after, like, 4xing. It was like 4x—yeah, 5x, from 1,100 to 5,500. It pulled back a little bit. I think this is just going to consolidate and then go on to all-time highs. They're still making money, still doing well.
That guy was cool as fuck, by the way.
The Net Capital chart. We're about to have the Net Capital founder on right now. Mr. AI Dunlap.
What's that chart doing? Oh, Dunlap ripping.
Is it consulting? Connect Consulting[?] But, yeah, they're adding like a million dollars to their treasury every fucking day, which is pretty crazy. The treasury's growing a lot faster than the inflation on the coin, which is impressive.
That is—
Thanks for 107,000 followers on Market Bubble, by the way. I'm just looking at that now. Is Net Capital ready? It says he—
Can't tell, because it's just an image. I don't know if you're not ready yet.
It's all good. It's all good. Actually, this is perfect. We can continue to chip away at the main show production. If it even gets to 30 minutes, it's fine. We can finish the main show.
Okay, so I guess he is ready. Great. I'm fucking starving.
Me too.
Jesus Christ. What's good, brother? Dunlap, how are you? Great to have you on the show.
Hey, happy to be here. Super, super excited to talk to you guys, and thanks for the posts, the following, the project, all that good stuff. Appreciate it, bro.
You're fucking—actually, you're in the picture.
Yeah, it can neither confirm nor deny. Can neither confirm nor deny. [laughter]
Bro, have you seen FaZe Banks? Have you seen some of their AI content and stuff they've been posting on their page?
Fill me in. I traded Net Net Capital briefly based on you just talking, because that's just what the fuck I do.
[Laughter.] But no, you seem pretty bullish on it and excited about it. I tried to follow some of the tweets and stuff, but yeah, just pretend I’m [__] [__].
You know, I’ve got to show you one of these [__] videos because the videos are fucking hilarious. This character is the main character in all of their content. It’s actually really good. I’ve been enjoying—
Don’t use no AI content creation. This is—we’re all actors and directors.
Obviously, I’m kidding. I’m kidding. Okay, okay.
All real actors.
All real actors.
This is one. Okay, this is the one I want to see. Look at this [__].
The [__]—where the fuck is the tweet?
Oh, this is great. Love this.
They just tweeted that they made, like, $187,000 in the past 24 hours—the 8th-highest revenue in the entire sector. And then this dude is [__].
So this is, like, your mascot, this [__] guy?
Yeah.
Okay, I got it.
He’s a—You know, we have a saying in the community. We say, “We are all Al Dunlap.” This is all of us. It’s our pool.
So, for the chat and everybody watching, can you give a little bit of an overview of what Net Net Capital Management is? Then we’ll go into your background a little bit after that.
Yeah, for sure. What we’re doing here—there have been many, call it, clone forks. I call it an improvement. We kind of took V1 and changed some things so that the treasury actually benefits from the number-one revenue engine in crypto, which is trading. That’s the baseline for the protocol.
Why did we choose this? M3M3, as it existed, is a terrific community-building tool—a community-building protocol. You have all these people staking, wanting to see the treasury grow. You’re also able to create this entity where you can effectively operate a business that tries to make money, like all businesses do, but you can bring that revenue and cash flow into the treasury. If you’re able to grow the treasury, then, mathematically, you should see the token price go up as well, because the market will always price in a premium.
When we hopped on the first livestream I did with the M3M3 guys, the token price was back then what the backing is right now. The market is always going to price in a premium if you’re able to prove that the treasury is able to grow. The first layer is the protocol side, which we can definitely talk more about.
The second layer is this high-level thesis around RWAs, the composability of them, and building this new layer in gamified finance that hasn’t really existed yet. It seems to be the natural evolution of where things are going. You look at trading tokens, what a lot of these social-trading apps are doing, Hyperliquid, sports betting climbing every single year, and prediction markets. Everyone is sort of gambling, gaming, socializing, and playing. Sometimes we call it investing, sometimes we call it trading, sometimes we call it gambling, but all these things are converging into one place.
We’re trying to be really explicit: You can actually use these RWAs now that they’re tokens. You can play games with them, and you can have interesting RWA experiences built on top of them. One thing we built was this crazy 10-level Game Boy game where you had to buy RWAs throughout your journey to level up, and then there was a huge jackpot at the end. Someone won 10 playing it.
That’s the high-level thesis: all these things are converging in one place. We want to be the ones building this layer and building the Lego blocks so that future developers and future teams can come in and have an easier time building these experiences. If you’re able to get a third party or a big company, let’s say, to buy into this idea, this vision—
We have Haskell and Aldo Swag in the chat, and they’re trolling me. These are two huge streamers. I don’t know what the fuck they’re doing, but they’re asking, “How about you two shut the fuck up and lock in and maybe—”
Listen, make some money.
Yeah, please, please. Ansem, let me just ask you a question. I’m kind of obsessed with the idea of play-to-earn in crypto, and gaming and finance and gaming. Obviously, cheating is a massive risk. If there’s any potential to have an edge in something, people will always find it and exploit it, right?
So it’s made the idea of a crypto game or a finance game almost unrealistic, unattainable in terms of multiplayer. The single-player stuff—buying RWAs and so on—that makes sense to me, but I don’t know. Do you think that it’s ever going to be possible to create a valid, mainstream, big finance game where you can play with other people? Yeah. Thank you.
Let me give you some anecdotal evidence. At midnight last night, we launched our first PvP game. It’s called The Boardroom.
In the last—so it’s been about 15 hours—
There’s been $250,000 of Microsoft stock bought through the game.
The jackpot has climbed up to $30,000. We’ve had over 900 wallets spin up 5,500 sessions against each other. We’re already sort of seeing this, and this is a very simple, basic game.
We can talk more about the DeFi Kingdoms stuff. I know that’s close to home, but I was really into all this stuff in 2020. The fundamental flaw with it all was that these games and experiences were built on a protocol token that effectively operated as a house of cards. Once JEWEL went to zero, no one gave a fuck about the game anymore.
So what if you can bring some of these ideas and concepts back that were really sticky and had us all talking about them, playing them, trading, investing, and locking millions of dollars away for 4 years because we thought it could be worth more in the future? Then it’s like, okay, there’s actually an assurance that this thing is going to be valuable next year versus whatever JEWEL became. Yeah. So, yeah. Go on. Sorry.
Bro, I fucking love DeFi Kingdoms. For the chat that does not know what DeFi Kingdoms was, it was a game at the tail end of the 2021 cycle, right after Axie Infinity went to— I don’t even know what it went through, $30 billion or something crazy.
DeFi Kingdoms was this game on Harmony, this L1. Harmony is not—I don’t even think it fucking works anymore. I think it does not work at all. But DeFi Kingdoms was this game that allowed you to farm with heroes and do all this LP shit. The token was superinflationary, but the game was actually really fun to play.
It had these super-high APRs if you were early to farming, providing liquidity in these pools, and doing all the things in the game. But it failed because the token was purely inflationary, and it went to a few billion dollars. A lot of these crypto games are not actually games, right? It’s just like—
Yes, it was. No, DeFi was a game.
No, I know it was. I know it was, but I’m just saying—
Yeah.
I think the difference between Net Net and DFK, what I think people are kind of understanding, is that you’ve done a great job of very transparently setting the standard of, “This is worth this much at the lowest level, but it can never go beneath this.” The more trading volume and attention that all the games we build in Net Net get, the more this treasury value is going to continue to rise and get higher.
You do have an inflationary token that you pay people—I think it’s about 1.2% if you stake. Yep.
On NET right now, but you only pay out those rewards if the FDV is 1.75x above the treasury RV, the total value. If it’s below that or equal to that, they’re not paying out the inflationary rewards anymore. It just aligns with whatever the protocol has acquired in its treasury, which I think is a huge difference from all the inflationary games before.
And yeah, I love DFK, but—
Yeah. Yeah.
The token contract is completely immutable, which was an important decision to make. A lot of the M3M3—basically, the treasury would get rubbed, or if it fell to backing, the community would have a huge battle about whether they were going to let people redeem the treasury and so on. We have buybacks built in from day 1. Nothing can ever change. If backing catches up to the token price, you’ll be able to redeem your backing all the time. You can do that.
The whole game is: Can treasury growth outpace inflation? That’s the game we’re playing. When it started, the first week we were doing maybe a few thousand a day into the treasury.
Now it’s consistently been $1 million a day over the last week, and it’s continuing to grow. If we’re able to nail down some of these distribution channels, my goal is to see third-party revenue outside of the bond flow and outside of the token tax. I want to see the third-party revenue start to climb up and overtake some of these other sources of revenue.
The treasury is on pace to make $100,000 from Microsoft stock today through this little game we built. That’s going to be the biggest revenue-earning game that we’ve had to date. We’re starting to see these things get bigger and bigger, provide more revenue to the treasury, more backing to NET stakers, and, yeah, man, that’s kind of the vision as I see it.
How fast is the treasury growing right now in comparison to the inflationary rewards? I know you said you guys just hit around $11 million. How much has it gained in the past month?
In the past month, we’ve gained $10.5 million.
Yeah.
They’ve added more than that, probably.
You guys have an $10 million treasury.
$11 million right now. Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah, I think a month ago it was around $500,000. Whenever you first noticed it on stream, it was around $600,000. So whenever that was, we gained $10.5 million.
Bro, literally, I think it was two weeks ago. It wasn’t last week; it was two weeks ago or something. I’m on stream going through the timeline, and I’m like, “Oh, I’ve seen this NET market cap stuff around,” and I watched some of the M3M3 live video. I’m scrolling through it and looking at the games on the site, like, “Oh, this is actually pretty cool.” The treasury was at $600,000. Now the treasury’s at—
It’s without question. Especially the RWA stuff—the gamification of trading—there are going to be a few people who win on a monumental level with this shit. It’s clearly the way people want to trade. I feel like it’s partially responsible for why a lot of these social trading apps are successful. I don’t know.
So, the big project that we’re working on right now is a legitimate MMORPG. Take DeFi Kingdoms to another level. We’re working with a lot of really talented game designers and thinking about the early days of World of Warcraft, those types of—
I’m excited, bro.
No, I know. I think it’s important to mention because you said something a while back about how AI tooling for developers is increasing velocity so quickly. The crypto incentives are there for more talented developers to come into the space and build.
The way I’m viewing that, too, is I’m pitching not traditional developers, but traditional people who work in gaming. I’m like, “Listen, we’re able to iterate so much quicker. We have a community. Anything we put out will get a minimum of 1,000 players in the first 12 hours because we have this community of token holders who care so deeply about what we build. Come join up with me in what I’m doing. Let’s build the most kick-ass game that you could possibly imagine.”
What I think in the future is that FOMO and all these things become like RuneScape and World of Warcraft. We sort of go into—
I think an even better comparison is Xbox Live. I feel like whoever builds the Xbox Live experience for trading is a $100 billion company. I know that sounds fucking crazy. I know I’m fucking 40 years old, but it’s just—
I don’t know.
No. So, yeah, that would be 1,000x from our current price. That’s the goal. Continue with what you were saying about connecting game designers to crypto and explaining the—
Yeah. The idea is basically that I’ve been around for a minute, and the reason that I stick around and love the space so much as a builder is that the incentive structure is so clear and evident. If you’re building a social media app, you have to go out and get funding. You have to bring in all this capital, pitch your idea, and find users to start.
In crypto, it’s like, “Hey, can I bootstrap a community of token holders early on?” Then they become your champions, your VCs, your whales—everything. You also have this endless loop of attention from people who deeply care about your product because they’re personally incentivized to care about it and want it to succeed.
You pair that with the AI tooling that exists for development, and you’re basically able to do what we’ve already done. We’ve shipped 15 RWA experiences in the last 6 weeks. I’m using this as a platform to show what’s possible, why it’s good to be a developer in crypto, and to bring even more talented people in to help actually build this.
I know you read that RWA play, and I really do believe in that thesis. I think it makes a ton of sense. We need the right people here. We need to show people that crypto is “back,” or that it’s a good place to park your career, to park your time. We’re making it happen. This game is unfolding before my eyes. I said in chat today, but I also really wanted to figure out a way to get back on OpenSea and do NFTs.
That’s another thing, too: the NFT thing needs some sort of resurgence, but it needs a legitimate use case for sure.
We’ve had 2 separate collections be number 1 trending in the last week.
Oh, really?
Yeah, we have a ton of volume going through OpenSea now. We’re working pretty closely with them as well. The idea is that NFTs—
That’s crazy.
—should have worked if they were used in the correct way.
Yeah.
We already have, within the MMORPG, what I call loot cases. There are over 2,000 different ways that these NFTs you own can actually increase the RWAs that you earn. We can talk more about the game, too.
No, that’s cool. It’s really cool. That’s obviously the use for it, right? You imagine the Oasis or some GTA server, walking around as a CryptoPunk on a platform that has billions of people on it, where people are playing 8 hours a day. There’s obviously value in being able to signal something like that.
Do you have any grails? Is there an NFT that—
One of ours sold a couple of days ago for $50,000.
That’s cool. I know you personally like NFTs. Is there anything that you could only dream of owning one day?
I’ve owned all the ones I could have ever dreamed of owning one day.
Do you have CryptoPunks?
Yeah. I got really into the Pudgy Penguins universe. I was all about it. I owned a bunch of those, and I still do. I’ll give a shout-out to them. They’ve done a good job community-building.
Brother, I’ve been holding a zombie CryptoPunk for 4 years. I’m never selling it. I got onboarded to crypto through NFTs, and it was my fucking grail. It was my end goal, and I traded up to get it. I can’t explain it. That’s really, really fucking cool.
I think you said somewhere that you talked to the GTA team. What’s that about?
Yeah, I got in a little bit of trouble for that.
Yeah, you talked to a GTA official. In what context? Do we expect an NFT server? Are you guys going to build it?
I’m bringing in a lot of interesting gaming people to help me with this, so I’ve been making the rounds. I’ll just say I’ll leave it at that.
What are you doing? Can you tell us a little bit about your background in crypto? You’ve been in crypto for a while and obviously know and have seen what’s worked and what hasn’t worked in the space. Tell us a little bit about your background.
I think there’s a really cool parallel right now. If you look at DeFi summer on Ethereum in 2020 and 2021, and now you look at RWAs and tokenized stocks popping off on Robinhood, I think there are a lot of good parallels between the two. If you see how much wealth creation happened during DeFi summer and think that something possibly close to that could happen right now with all this AI tooling, plus more institutional interest and more retail interest, I think it’s a really cool parallel between those two things. I’m curious what your thoughts are.
Yeah. Speaking of RWA, I fully agree with you. I noticed it right away when I started doing this. The first thing I did was rebuild and pull together—
I was just like, I want to go after all the old DeFi projects that kind of died and try to revive that feeling and ethos. We have this game—we call it WinNet. It's a no-loss lottery, and it's giving away about $6,000 a night right now. There are about 1,200 people playing it every single night just by staking your NET in the pool.
So, yeah, we're definitely trying to bring that back. Anecdotally, what I've noticed is that—
Yeah, the vibes are back in a different way than they have been. People are starting to care about the financial products being built and the memes as well. After everyone got washed out in 2021, people basically said, “DeFi will never come back. All these products go to zero. They're dead.” You're slowly starting to see an uptick in interest in actual, real products on-chain, which is really cool to see. DeFi's back, memecoins are back, NFTs are back. We're all back, bro.
I know. I know. My background, as I mentioned on a different call, is that my first job—my first role in crypto—was working on NBA Top Shot.
Oh, cool.
Really cool experience.
Yeah, yeah. So, really cool experience there. You stayed through scaling all the way up to huge growth. What were your credentials to land something like that?
I'm a big sports guy—big, big sports guy. Before that, without doxing myself, I was building sports gaming apps. That's what led me into NBA Top Shot.
Yeah. Well, Unipcs is Mike Tyson, apparently. You said you have 15 games live right now. So, the 3 ways you're making revenue right now: 1 is the 5% tax on trading volume, right? 2 is the bonds, where you can buy NET at a discount; you provide the stablecoins, and with those stablecoins you buy RWAs or stocks, which get added to the treasury. The 3rd way is through all these games. Is the MMORPG the thing you're most excited about right now, and how do you plan to integrate the NFTs into that? What's the thing you're most excited about right now that you're working on?
I would say there are 2 things that I'm most excited about. The MMORPG is a passion project. I think it's going to be unbelievably sick. The other thing is distribution and partnerships, finding teams that have really good apps or a really strong user base interested in gaming, investing, or betting, and either building products or games directly catered to their users or integrating some of our existing games.
The way that works is, basically, this game that we launched today, Boardroom, is a prisoner's dilemma game. You play against someone, and you have to choose whether to split or steal a pot.
Sick.
The point of doing this is that we're starting to prove out a lot of the Legos that we've built and see how they scale. Last night, we got hit with 50,000 requests in under 2 minutes, and it's like, okay, how does it scale under that load? How does Robinhood Chain hold up under that load? These are the kinds of things we're looking at.
The game before this was a Subway Surfers game where you opened a 100× long on NVIDIA when you started your run, and you had to collect coins to increase your margin. That was the basic premise of the game, and the gas has increased by 2× on Robinhood Chain since the game went live. We're looking at how everything is holding up while we're doing this and how our own internal architecture is holding up.
We have 1,000 players trying to play this game right now. What about 10 million players? What's that going to look like? The point of these games is that they're each a little bit different. Each one is proving out a different Lego and seeing how it works. I guess that answers your question. I don't know.
Yeah, great answer. What's your long-term vision for this? Is this a short-term passion project for you? What's your long-term outlook, and what does success look like? Do you think there's any possible way that Robinhood could integrate some of these things?
Yeah. I'll talk about a few things. Everyone has been so obsessed with token listings since I've been in crypto, at least since 2016 or 2017. It's like, “Is FTX going to list your token? Is Coinbase going to list your token? Is Robinhood going to list your token?” I think it doesn't really matter. What matters more is whether you can get one of your products integrated into these places.
The reason for that is that any money we're able to bring into the treasury will, de facto, make the price go up because we're able to show increasing treasury growth at this highly increasing rate. What I'm passionate about, and why I'm doing this, is that I love 2021 and 2017 too—the ICO era. I had so much fun on-chain, and I think people with a ton of capital found ways to take the fun away, treat the trenches, so to speak, as exit liquidity, and take away the edge or advantage that we had.
My goal with this has been to have someone who isn't trying to extract as much money out of a project as possible—someone who cares about the mission, wants to see the token succeed and do well, and also wants to have fun. That's ultimately my goal with this. I'm hoping that one day the token can continue to go up, the treasury can grow at this insane rate, and the people contributing the most money to the treasury have no idea what NET even is. They're just playing the game.
It's also a really good venue to be super nimble. We've gotten a ton of really good signals from Robinhood and other apps that we're heading in the right direction. Let's say that one day people want to trade the price of apples. We can bring in some sort of experience and have it feed the treasury. All that matters is bringing money to the treasury. I'm committed to helping lead us there.
It's been fun so far, but it's crazy because of the way the crypto attention span works. It's like, where were the biggest companies of today when they were 6 weeks old? Crypto people are like, “Oh, you're late to the trade. You're late to the trade.” I totally understand, because I've been around and I get that sentiment, but I really feel like we're just getting started. We haven't even done 1% of what I'm hoping to do.
Yeah, you guys are moving at breakneck speeds, bro. It's crazy how fast you guys are scaling. It's what you said, man. It's literally what you said: the incentives align, and this is where it's all heading. I read that and I was like, “I [expletive] with that 100%.” I completely agree. I was like, let's just push the pedal and see where we can go.
Bro, what did you just put on the screen? My fault.
I said, “It's just getting started.”
It's just getting started. We need a button for that. We need a button. No, I am super excited, bro. I feel like you really just need a few protocols where, if I'm a smart developer, I know how to use AI, and I'm building in crypto, I can make a lot of money while doing things that are cool and building products that nobody has built before.
If NET is going to be the place where that happens—or anywhere else is going to be the place where that happens in crypto—I'm super supportive of that. Even if you're skeptical of certain designs, I don't think it's really possible to bet against the fact that there are going to be a lot more stablecoins coming on-chain, a lot more RWAs coming on-chain, and a lot more tokenized stocks coming on-chain. Whoever is able to capture that in a way that retail enjoys trading them obviously wins huge.
Anecdotally, I've been a software developer for a long time now, and the market of opportunity is shifting so much. You're going to see way more talented people looking to come on-chain, and with them they'll bring cool projects, a bunch of users, and new interest.
Speaking to the idea that the bull market is back, everyone is kind of laughing about it, but I actually really believe this is cascading into a place where you're going to start to see some crazy [expletive]. I'm hoping we can build a lot of the crazy [expletive], but even at a high level—high meta—it makes sense that crypto is the place where the most talented developers would come because the incentive structure is so strong for them to build here.
Yeah. Even if you're one of the most talented developers right now, I know the comps get crazy—$1 million-plus a year, some even higher—but how many of those developers making a million dollars could make more by building something in crypto and gaining traction extremely fast? I feel like that's a question a lot of people are going to have to ask.
Yep. Yep.
And I think it's going to happen, man. I'm excited to be where we're at right now, and I'm excited for where it's going to go. It's so funny, too. I actually just talked to the OHM guys. They're going to add a bunch of NET liquidity against OHM.
That's lit.
Pure. Yeah, the vibes are pure. Everyone's really excited, so I'm pumped.
That's fucking lit, bro. But there were so many OHM forks last cycle, bro, that were just copies. What was the one on AVAX at the time?
Yep. That was TIME. That printed and went really well.
That was a good one. TIME was. You want to know what the best one was back then? I don't know if you did this, but do you remember ROME?
I do remember ROME.
If you got the right role in the Discord, it was a $100,000 airdrop.
That was all you needed.
That was on Sol, right?
I think it was on Harmony, one of those chains.
Yeah.
Yeah, man. The fucking L1 bridging game in the 2020–2021 cycle was so fucking crazy, bro. That's when I first got into being a solo dev. I was basically arbitraging all of these chains, just printing Boba and all this different stuff. So, good times.
All the fucking farms and shit—that was the best. Okay, cool, man. Awesome. Thank you for coming on. This was great. I definitely want to have you on again because you're developing things very fast. I'm going to want updates on everything that's going on.
You're sick, Al. You have a good head on your shoulders. I fuck with it. It's awesome. Yeah, thanks, guys. I appreciate you having me on, and hopefully we'll come back again soon.
Yes, sir. Later, brothers.
Later.
We have Will Clemente in the waiting room, but I obviously have to take a piss. Talk to chat for a second. Chat. So bad, dude. What's good, chat?
Somebody said, “Buy him more.” Yeah, bro, that dude's gonna crush. He's locked in. He is locked all the way in. Did you see they launched a 9/11 memecoin paired with Boeing? “Generational trauma to generational wealth.” That's really dark, bro. This might be the darkest message I've read in the chat.
That's fucking crazy. No, I didn't know they did that. That's crazy. Btoshi has 400-plus NFTs waiting for you to be sent out. Yes, I know. Who here wants a fucking mansion? I assume everybody.
Yeah, I'll try the board meeting game after this, to be honest—the NetNet Capital board meeting game. As for Creator Capital's social trading, I don't really have a take. I do think the social stuff is going to continue to do really well. I feel like every episode we talk about social trading and social.
It's obviously something that's going to get a lot more popular in crypto. I'm just not exactly sure how the protocol building on top of it capitalizes on it. I know some people who know the Creator Capital guys, and they seem to like the team and what they're doing, but I'm not exactly sure what it looks like. Their product could be something that existing products also work on and build.
Yeah, I am holding that. Somebody said, “Give me $1,000 and I'll buy a mansion.” Bro, what mansion are you going to buy with $1,000? He be doing a lot in there, man. Even Mags looks good.
We have FOMC next—not next week, the week after, right? The 15th and 16th. It's hard, though. Oh, let's get it cracking then. No.
I am back. Yeah, let's get Will in here. I might have to dip off at 4:00. My dog's at home alone, fucking screaming and crying in her crate. The girl that I'm seeing is traveling, but we'll get him in here, and then you guys can maybe do some post-show shit if you want to keep it rolling.
Let's get Will in here, guys. Will has to hard stop at 4:00 p.m. as well. Same. So we'll catch you for 20 minutes. Hopefully we'll bring you back on. But, Will, pleasure to meet you, brother. You want to introduce yourself to the show?
What's up, guys? Great to be on. I've enjoyed watching the show grow over the last couple of months. I could say a couple of words about myself. I'm 24 now. I dropped out of school when I was 19. I basically taught myself stuff. Initially, I started with Warren Buffett-style discounted-cash-flow investing at my desk.
After COVID happened, I realized all the value stuff was underperforming—all the momentum, very liquidity-sensitive stuff. I came to the realization that Bitcoin was the thing you probably wanted to own. I built up my account for 3 to 6 months, and shortly after that, the account kind of took a life of its own and blew up. I ran it for a while and then decided to drop out of school.
I helped basically run a podcast newsletter. It got up to about 100,000 subscribers. I talked to a bunch of people throughout all of crypto—Michael Saylor, different fund managers, and stuff. After about a year of doing that, I decided to go off and do my own thing.
I partnered up with Anthony Pompliano. A lot of people know him as Pomp. We launched a research firm called Reflexivity Research. We did that for about 2 years—2 and a half years. I wanted to focus more on the markets, and we were able to find a good buyer. We got acquired, and it was a pretty good outcome.
After that, I was at a trading firm, then another trading firm, and now I'm managing my own PA.
Amazing. I mean, you're 24 years old. That's fucking incredible. That's incredible, brother. That's amazing. Is it public information how much you guys got acquired for and sold for?
Yeah, sure. We got bought in all stock by a company called DeFi Technologies. You could look up the terms of it. At the peak of it, it was a low-8-figure outcome after the equity had appreciated, although I didn't offload the equity at the exact top. It ended up being a pretty good outcome.
You would have been 22 years old at that time. Is that true?
Yeah.
An 8-figure outcome at 22 years old—you should be incredibly proud of yourself. That's fucking amazing. You said the last couple of years you've just been focused on the markets.
Yeah, pretty much. I was always focused on the markets. A lot of the content I did—research content—was very market-focused, but it was tough to say, when I'm 19, to go all in and not try to have some kind of full-time job or maybe build some equity value through a business.
I had this Twitter account. I generally tried to do everything the right way and was asking myself, “How do I monetize this distribution that I have?” My co-founder also had a couple million followers on Twitter. He went on TV all the time and had a big podcast and newsletter as well. We saw this as a great way to utilize the distribution to get it off the ground.
Yeah, makes sense. I saw your post—your long article on Bitcoin. It was very close to the bottom when you flipped bullish again, and it was a great post. Do you think this cycle will be similar to the last cycle in terms of the returns for BTC, or do you think they'll look slightly different? What do you think about crypto compared to equities and the risk-reward for Bitcoin and other cryptos right now?
Yeah, I think we could start maybe last year, kind of mid-last year. I got to this point where I decided to veer away from crypto. I'd always generally been crypto-focused post-COVID.
Yep.
I think you had this moment where there was a ton of new supply coming on, right? All these unlocks were taking place. There were no clear new narratives for the industry to grasp onto to drive new demand.
Stocks had started to do very well. The AI narrative was getting more reflexive. At the same time, in the background, you had this really beautiful consolidation on gold, and I was able to basically drop everything I was doing and really shift my focus there.
I spent most of my time shifted away from crypto and more toward commodities in the back half of last year. Around the turn of this year, my best-performing position in my PA, up until recently—aside from some of these crypto buys—was actually energy. I hit the AI trade a little bit, but it was a lot of these big U.S. oil companies at the beginning of the year, before Trump went into Venezuela.
So I shifted my focus to commodities, then stocks, and recently I've shifted my focus back to—
I can't believe you're 24 years old, brother. Not to cut you off, but I can't believe it. It's actually sickening. When I was 24 years old, I was not doing what you're doing.
I could just tell, by the way, that you're a psyched-out, sick trader from the way you're explaining it. You're like, “We found this really beautiful consolidation in gold.” It's a fucking art. You're Picasso with the paintbrush. It's sick.
Obviously, people care about numbers and figures. Whether you explicitly share this information or not, how successful have you been trading the markets over the last couple of years?
Yeah. In general, I would say I've done well. I've been seriously trying to trade my PA since around last year because I had this large liquidity event through the acquisition of my startup. From there, I used that capital to build up my own personal portfolio.
Last year was okayish. I made some mistakes, and I know what the mistakes were. This year has been very good, and again, it hasn't really been from the AI stuff. It has been from some other things.
Maybe I could talk about why crypto has been interesting, or why Bitcoin has been—
Yeah, someone in chat just said, “I want to hear his answer on what he thinks about Bitcoin and how it's going to perform in the future.” Obviously, everybody's ready to turn risk back on in crypto. It feels fucking great.
Z is calling local bottoms, and the market did what it did today. It feels good to be back in crypto. We feel good about it again.
It feels lovely, man. It feels absolutely lovely.
9. Bitcoin Meets Financial Repression
I guess I could start with the reason why I thought Bitcoin was interesting from a spot-purchase perspective. I wish I'd laid in some calls because volatility was so low, but Bitcoin bear markets usually bottom when you run out of sellers, not necessarily when you have some new catalyst to bring in inflows.
In my view, I thought 2022 was pretty straightforward. That was the only other bear market I'd been through. You had the credit contagion, FTX going down, and interest rates. You could look at those things and ask whether they were skewed toward getting worse or better on a forward basis. Toward the back half of 2022, I thought it was pretty clear that they were skewed toward getting better, but I didn't have any real capital at the time.
This time around, I think it was a little similar—maybe a little less easy. I think you had 2 big overhanging risks on BTC, and maybe a 3rd one. The first was quantum, the second was the DATs, and the third was the relative underperformance. Anybody who was going to sell because Bitcoin was underperforming other assets would have already done so by the time we got to the last couple of months. That money rotated out 6 to 9 months ago. All the momentum guys had long been gone.
Quantum is a real risk. I don't think you get to buy the re-rate after the risk is gone. Similar to the ETF last cycle, I would expect the price to play out similarly when it comes to the quantum risk, because it will start to forward-price the trajectory for whatever group of developers is being funded to fix it. That will get priced in before it's fully resolved.
I felt like being 50% off the highs in U.S. dollars and 70% off the highs in gold was a reasonable pricing-in of that—or at least the people who wanted to sell for that reason had already done so.
The last one was the DATs. For me, once Saylor had started selling the BTC, it basically put the bottom in. I put out this fucking post saying that he was transferring coins and giving liquidity to the plebs at the bottom, which he kind of was. By selling, he was basically putting the bottom in because he was showing the market that there was a seller.
That's smart. Yeah.
Yeah. He's basically willing to use the Bitcoin to recollateralize the converts. Now Bitcoin has gone up, and they're even more overcollateralized. The Bitcoin is even larger than the debt load they have outstanding.
I felt like all those things had mostly already been priced in on a forward basis and were skewed toward only getting better over the next 1 or 2 years. So I bought a bunch of spot BTC and picked up some ZEC as well, which we could talk about if you want. I think there are a couple of really interesting reasons why Bitcoin is compelling on a forward basis, along with a couple of real narratives that it could pick up from here.
I'm not really hearing about a lot of Bitcoin stuff right now. People are making trades like Zcash, Robinhood, Solana, and Hyperliquid.
It's good to hear, though. I hold a ton of Bitcoin. Z, are you holding BTC right now?
Some. Yeah, some.
Zcash—let's hear about Zcash, because I made a big Zcash trade, in part because of Z, but I'd love to hear your—
I also want to know your thoughts on all the Treasury stuff that's been going on, because that's a big driver right now, too.
Yeah, sure. I think they're actually a bit intertwined. Some of the bull case for BTC would apply to ZEC as well. So I could talk about the reasons for both that overlap and kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
I think the first is the debt situation in the U.S. We just crossed $40 trillion in debt outstanding. We've continued to accumulate this huge amount of debt relative to our economy. People have been wondering what the catalyst will be to get the market to care about this again.
In the last couple of months, we've seen long-end interest rates—basically, the long-term borrowing costs for the federal government—start to knock on the door of breaking out. We've also seen volatility in the yen. We saw Scott Bessent and the Treasury intervene in the yen, and the reason they did that was because the BOJ, the Bank of Japan, could have had to sell U.S. Treasuries to defend the currency if it got too weak. They're one of the largest holders of U.S. debt in the world.
If they had to do that, it would have pushed borrowing costs up even more. It seems pretty clear that the U.S. and the authorities, especially from a monetary perspective, are getting quite closed in with regard to their options here.
The historical precedent for what you see—or at least in modern monetary and financial history—is what's usually referred to as financial repression. They can get creative with the ways they do it, but essentially, this is when you hold rates below the rate of inflation and try to inflate your debt away because our dollars aren't backed by anything.
You could just create more dollars than what you're lending out to somebody and what you're giving them in interest. You could print the difference, and you're paying them back the same amount of dollars, but you've created more dollars, so they're worth less.
There's really no appetite to cut spending in the U.S. We put one of the smartest people and best operators on the planet in a position to cut spending, and they started firebombing his stores.
Like, that's just not going to happen. No politician has the appetite to stop giving out free shit to people. This is where I think we're headed, and we're starting to see big signals of it happening.
The forcing function has been the JPY, as well as the big one: long-end bond yields, or the borrowing costs of the U.S., starting to break out. This is bullish for BTC from a liquidity-creation perspective. Whenever real interest rates go negative, that's usually good for hard assets like gold and Bitcoin.
But this is also where Zcash comes in. When you enter these periods of financial repression, you start to see really wonky things, because what the government is basically doing is saying, “We want to gate everybody in so that you have to hold our debt.”
And so, very famously, in 1933, there was Executive Order 6102, which is basically when they seized everybody’s gold. The federal government said, “Any private citizen, you need to bring us your gold, and we’re going to buy it at the current market price.” The Treasury marked it up, and it helped them pay down their debt.
In places like the UK after World War II, when they were doing this, they would basically gate people off from buying foreign stocks or other foreign assets. So I think we could be entering some kind of period like this, and all bets are off. All these rules-based-order norms—the kind of world that we’ve lived in post–World War II—we could see a lot of things that we haven’t seen before as this process unfolds.
So I would suspect that hard assets continue to do well. But this is where something like the privacy narrative around Zcash, I think, is interesting and really overlaps with some of the stuff with Bitcoin.
It’s up 30% today.
Yeah, and the chart against Bitcoin looks great. I’m sure Z has probably posted it at some point, but both the weekly and monthly charts on ZEC/USD and ZEC/BTC look good. So I think it’s an interesting piece in your portfolio.
I have a minor position in Zcash relative to Bitcoin. You basically get the beta plus the quantum hedge for the quantum risk to Bitcoin.
It’s like a hedge, but it’s also beta on the way up. So, yeah, I think it’s an interesting play. What percentage of Bitcoin do you hold in Zcash? What’s the difference?
Yeah, it’s less than a tenth. Right now, it’s 65% BTC, maybe a little more, in my personal portfolio, and less than a tenth of that is in Zcash. It’s just something to do.
Yeah, I’m like 10 to 1. I’m like 10 to 1 on BTC to Zcash as well.
Nice. I feel like that’s what a lot of people are seeing it as, basically a hedge.
Yeah.
I think it’s quite bullish because if you have this kind of 1% of BTC meme, then it will most likely outperform, and that’s what the pair against BTC looks like.
I guess the only other piece of my tangent that’s worth mentioning is that I think the rise of socialism is bullish for both BTC and Zcash. A lot of the monetary pressures that have led to wealth inequality continue to get exacerbated, and the fact that we don’t have hard money contributes to that.
I think the rise of socialism is probably going to continue to accelerate throughout the US. Something like multisignature, multijurisdictional Bitcoin—you’ve got 1 key in Singapore, 1 in Switzerland, and 1 in Wyoming or something—I think that could become a cornerstone of high-net-worth portfolios and is worth watching as a potential source of flows for both.
I definitely agree with that. I’ve never heard that. That’s a really smart take. Do you have an opinion on the US Bitcoin reserve and whether they’re going to be more aggressive with that? I know we just saw one of the last meetings that Trump held. He talked about Hyperliquid a little bit, but he also mentioned that they’re considering doing something with Bitcoin. It wasn’t a deeply detailed thing, but I’ve seen a few people talk about the possibility of the US getting more active there. Do you think that’s a possibility?
Yeah, sure, man. I think it’s a possibility. Again, when you look at these regimes where you basically have this financial-repression regime that we might be entering, anything’s on the table.
In 1933, they seized everybody’s gold. I don’t think it’s out of the cards to say that the US basically monetizes the gold on the Treasury’s balance sheet.
Why did they seize everyone’s gold?
Well, because it was a way to get out of the system, right? When you have these debt issues, they basically have to gate everything off and say, “You need to hold our debt.” They force you to hold the debt. Part of that is taking away the ability to purchase any of the alternatives, because gold is the escape valve.
Are you just fully out on cash? Do you have any cash?
Yeah, I keep at least 10% cash always, just to have personal runway in case something crazy happens or whatever. But, yeah, not a ton at the moment.
I mean, 10% might as well be 0% in the grand scheme of how the average person typically manages their finances. Most people have 100% of their money in cash.
Yeah. And, look, the people who are saving cash are going to be the ones at the most detriment in this regime. The people holding cash and bonds are going to get absolutely hosed, and the people who hold hard assets are the ones who are going to benefit. I think it’s possible that you see something similar to that. I don’t know if they’ll come out and seize people’s gold, but they might really try to be careful about it.
Also, this is a lukewarm take. This is just what happens if things trend in the exact same direction as they’ve always been, right? Fifty years ago, if you held all of your money in cash, you’d be down whatever the hell, right? It’s the worst possible place you can hold your money. Whereas if you bought gold, invested in stocks, or bought real estate, you’d be up a considerable amount.
The discrepancy is fucking insane. It’s exponential, right? So this is totally in line with how things have historically been. The sharpest part of the take that’s unlocked something for me is the socialism one. It makes perfect sense. With the increasing trend of socialism, that makes total fucking sense to me, and that is bullish Bitcoin, obviously.
Yeah, no, for sure. The other thing about holding cash is that I think they’re going to continue to push stablecoins. If they can basically replace normal dollar savings for people with stablecoins, and stablecoins are backed by T-bills, they can have the Fed cap rates. Instead of issuing long-end debt, they can just stuff it all into T-bills and then stuff it into stablecoins.
I think that’s why Scott Bessent and the administration are so focused on getting the Clarity Act passed. It’s another way they can just stuff the debt into stablecoins.
Finally, crypto’s on the same side as the US government. They’re heavily incentivized to get in line with it, which is obviously great. That was always the biggest bear case on Bitcoin, crypto, and everything else besides quantum.
Yeah, I think I’ll give maybe a tinfoil-hat take. I know you’ve got to jump, and I do in a few minutes as well. We can do one last question and wrap up.
We’ll bring you back too, bro. You’re a great guest.
Yeah, definitely. Appreciate you guys having me on.
I think a tinfoil-hat take would be that, if you have this lens that we’re entering this regime, the US is incentivized to get as much Bitcoin within its borders as possible. One of my biggest tinfoil-hat ideas—and this isn’t backed by anything substantive, and I’m not saying that I necessarily believe it to be true—is that they don’t necessarily need to hold the Bitcoin. They just need companies in the US to hold Bitcoin.
Something like MicroStrategy doesn’t necessarily need to have its Bitcoin seized. They just need to continue to be jurisdictionally within the US, because they could seize it if they needed to. That also helps back their debt situation. You can get a little tinfoil-hatty with some of this stuff, but I think the US is incentivized to have as much Bitcoin within its borders as possible.
I agree, bro. I definitely agree. I agree.
Chat, you guys can ask him some questions. Chat loves you, by the way. They think you’re the smartest guy here, which is funny because you’re half my age. Half my age—that’s so funny. You’re a sharp kid. This is sick.
Some rapid-fire for you, if you care to answer. Chat, get involved and ask him some questions. Besides Bitcoin and Zcash, which you’ve already talked about, I don’t even know if you’re positioned anywhere else in any meaningful way, but what are the 3 best crypto holds aside from Bitcoin and Zcash? Obviously, those are the clear, defining 1 and 2 for you.
Yeah, I don't know. Obviously, Hyperliquid's got to be up there. I don't want to give single-name security recommendations, but I do think Robinhood is probably interesting. I was pretty upset about not buying some yesterday. I was thinking about picking up some calls and didn't. I think that's really interesting.
I bought a bunch because of this fucking guy right here.
Yeah, I know. I saw his tweet yesterday, and I was like, man, the balls to buy.
Have you ever seen something like that? This kid is the fucking macro guy. Z's got to have it. He's got to be number 1, right?
I got it with me, bro. We're on the same page.
I'm going to have to add you to the rounds that I do. Anytime I'm thinking about making a big decision or moving a lot of money in and out of something, I have a couple of people that I ask, and Z's one of them.
Sure. No, he seems like a pretty good person to be on the list for sure. It was really cool because I think crypto people had an edge in HOOD, and I don't think you'd really seen anything like that in a while.
With Coinbase, I bought a bunch of LEAPS on it in 2023, and I thought it was kind of similar. The street wasn't really recognizing these crypto-native verticals within the business, but this was almost too obvious. Seeing how it moved today was like, “Oh, this was right in front of your face.”
So that was pretty cool. Anybody who was really in the weeds in crypto had an edge in buying that over the last week.
So you gave us HYPE, you gave us HOOD. You have a third one?
I don't know, man.
How do you feel about social trading? How do you feel about that?
I think it'll probably do good. I had tried to do an angel check about 5 years ago into another social-trading project, and it ended up not working out. But I generally think the idea makes sense for a variety of reasons.
But it doesn't sound like you think it's the end-all, be-all thing that's going to bring us into the mainstream and solve everything.
I guess my take is just that I think it's kind of like, in a sense, you're basically having a social construct in which everybody's holding these things, at least from my understanding. You don't want to sell it because other people are watching your wallet, and nobody's selling because nobody wants to trigger somebody else seeing them sell. Then it can kind of lead to these super-reflexive moves up, and then, as soon as—
For sure. I mean, it's definitely a toxic layer added, but I feel like growing pains are always going to be a real thing. I just don't know how you avoid it. It's 100% happening and going to happen, especially the way you see people growing on these apps locally. This fucking thing is something that is in a—
—is in extremely high demand. People are having fun with it, and people just want to trade anything, bro. People just want to trade information.
Sure. I think that's what Twitter is, right? It's people posting calls or whatever, posting their market thoughts, and people follow them. So I think it's just, what are the assets that you're using within this? Everything has to start somewhere, so it makes sense that it would start with super-speculative things like memecoins. So, yeah, I would invest in it.
Cool.
Cool, cool.
Just imagine Donald Trump had a fucking public trading profile, and you could just watch what he's trading in real time. That's obviously fucking insane.
He does. He releases his—well, right?
When it's public on a platform and he's posting a thesis.
Yeah, not in the moment. You don't see Trump—
When you see that—when you see that “sell it all,” that's when you sell everything.
That moment. Sell it all.
Oh, man. Just like Trump was top last cycle, we're going to have Barron on FOMO. That's what we're going to have.
Oh my God. Sell it all. Sell it all.
I heard Barron's worth like $100 million now or something. I think I saw it on Twitter.
I mean, I don't know how you could not. I think anybody anywhere near that should be up at least $100 million.
Imagine you could do 0DTE options on everything Trump said before he said it.
How much money would you have?
He should be at least—if he's not touching $100 million, fucking see you later, brother.
It's insane.
Yeah, he's younger than me, man.
He's in a good spot.
Man, it feels like we're all in a good spot, and it was great having you on. We're definitely going to have to have you come on again at some point. Z, do you have anything else to ask or add? Or, Will, do you want to take us out?
No, thanks for having me on. I feel like I just tried to speed-dump everything because we had 15 or 20 minutes. Also, the air conditioning in my apartment—I mean, in my house—isn't working very well.
Mine just broke too. It's got to be that Zcash, bro. It feels it.
Maybe Zcash's violent 30% move broke both of our ACs. It's too hot, bro. That's how hot the market is, brother.
Yeah.
So, I'm 40. But Will, thank you so much. We're definitely going to have you come back on in the future. We might have to add you to the group chat. You're a fucking sharp kid. You're creeping up on 800,000 followers on Twitter, which is fucking great. It's amazing. Twenty-four years old.
Props to you, brother. Appreciate you coming on.
Appreciate you guys. Hopefully I get to see you around soon. I would love to get in whatever group chat you're talking about.
Yeah, that's awesome. All right, we'll see you later, brother. Cool. Peace. See you guys.
Peace, bro.
It's just Bitcoin. It's Zcash. It's PUMP.
It doesn't have to be that complicated.
Solana.
It really—it's that? Is it? That's what I'm saying. Is it as simple as—
That complicated? It's not—
—those 6 spots, 80%, 90%, and then play with it, have fun with it, and try to hit a fucking WIF trade with the other 10%.
That's all you got.
That's just it, right? That's all you have to do.
That's all you have to do.
It's not like we're switching back and forth. It's not like we're really changing our opinion on this or how we're positioned. It's been pretty much consistent through the start of the show, besides the fact that we were—
Pretty bearish. I was super bearish at the beginning, but then once I thought the bottom was in, we did flip at the bottom. We did—
—fully flip, full-on, at the bottom, and this has been—
Along the lines of those 6 tickers, those 6 spots. Again, these aren't super-low-cap. Obviously, anything crypto-related is super volatile. At any point, crypto could fucking have a 30% down day. We've seen it happen a million times, so you already know the nature of the fucking market.
But with volatility, that's where all of our opportunity is to make a fucking ton of money. I think it's kind of simple—not to oversimplify, I don't know. But this has been fucking awesome.
I'm going to pass it off to you for the post-show. I have to get the fuck out of here. This has been great. Great show, and I appreciate you. Thank you so much for the pump in the Zcash calls and the HOOD. Seriously, thank you, brother. I fucking owe you dinner next time I see you. We'll go get dinner—meet you in fucking HB next Thursday after the show. All right, I'm going to pass it off to you. I'm going to pass it off to—