流亡伊朗王储 Reza Pahlavi：过渡计划与争取伊朗自由之战

All right, everybody. Welcome back to part two of the All-In podcast episode 263. We promised you a part 2 because we are very lucky that my dear friend Shervin Pishevar was able to set up a very important, historic interview for us today. None other than Prince Reza Pahlavi is here. We have a limited amount of time with you, Reza. May I call you Reza, or should I call you Prince Reza?

Thank you.

I can probably meet you on your program. It's great to have you. This is a moment I think you've been waiting 47, close to 50 years for, which is that we are at this moment in time looking at potentially the people of Iran being free. You left the country when you were 17 years old to become a pilot, and now you are looking to help your people with a transition after this military activity—this operation, essentially a war that's going on right now—that we all hope gets resolved quickly.

I think people would love to know what is your vision for Iran after this military action?

Thank you again for the opportunity. Before I get into that, I wanted to simply stress the importance of this intervention: It was like a rescue mission. It was literally a humanitarian intervention to protect more lives than would otherwise have been lost under this extremely brutal and repressive regime, which, as you know, has recently massacred tens of thousands of innocent and unarmed citizens. In order to equalize the playing field, this was a much-needed intervention that a lot of Iranians asked for, and fortunately, it did happen.

But what's the next step? Where are we headed? The most obvious question would be: Once the regime collapses, how do we manage the transition? I've stepped in to lead this transition with the help of many of my compatriots from various sectors. We believe that a stable transition will address the immediate needs of the country and then set the country on a path of redevelopment and reconstruction, which is, of course, something that we were always hoping for but that could not have happened under this corrupt, mafia-like regime.

Iran should have been, had it not been for the revolution, today's South Korea of the region. Instead, it has become the North Korea of the region. Why? Not because our people are not gifted, talented, or capable, and not because we lack natural resources. It's simply because of corrupt, bad management and a regime that basically took our country hostage, used it as a launching pad to export an ideology, and that's why we are here today.

A different Iran—a democratic, secular Iran—would first and foremost bring opportunities to our nation, but it would also open Iran for business again. Iran is one of the most untapped economic opportunities of the 21st century, and it could tremendously change the shape of our world in terms of what would be beneficial to the Iranian people, of course, but also from the vantage point of a country like the United States, and billions of dollars that will be generated as a result of doing business in Iran. We figure about 1 trillion in the first 10 years to the U.S. market, but also billions of dollars that will be invested into Iran and everything that we need to have done in order to rebuild our country. These are crazy opportunities that we can look forward to, and it all starts with moving toward this recovery and transition.

When your father was in charge, it was a monarchy. It turned into a dictatorship. To be clear, the hope now is to evolve into a democracy with free elections for the people. The average age of people in Iran now is in the early 30s—31, 32 years old. What would that look like? What is a possible timeline?

You have said on other programs and on your YouTube channel, which I suggest everybody go search for and follow right now because you're speaking directly to the people on X and on your YouTube channel. What is the condition on the ground from the people you're talking to? You said you've been talking to people in the military, civilians, and other leadership. They're ready to move on. What's the timeline, and what are they telling you is happening on the ground today, as we sit here?

I think that now the playing field has been equalized, meaning that the people could finally, awaiting the end of this campaign, have a better opportunity to reengage in the streets and take over their homeland. Of course, part of the equation is how much implosion there is from within the regime and how much defection there is from the regime, in the sense of joining with the people this time—not being an instrument that will halt the people's progress, but instead helping the people in that transition. This applies whether people are in the military or security forces, as well as in the civilian bureaucracy.

Unlike what happened after the fall of Saddam Hussein and the de-Ba'athification, the scenario of change in Iran is totally different. Let's not forget, Iran is a multicentury-old nation-state. It's a country that is extremely unified and united for this common purpose. Under this tent, we have diverse groups that are joining in this national campaign: People who are on the right, the center, and the left; monarchists, republicans, ethnic groups, and religious groups. Every sector of society is engaged.

I have had a tremendous amount of support coming from inside Iran. We have the support of the intelligentsia, universities, the working class, and the diaspora, which can bring a lot to this equation. I think this is a good recipe that will allow us to manage this transition, clean up, be ready for business, and create the opportunities that will finally impact, first and foremost, Iranians who have been starving as a result of this regime's corruption, but who now have a true opportunity to get back on track and improve their livelihood.

I think it's also good for those who partner with us in this process, because there's a lot to be done that will be win-win, as opposed to being lose-lose, to the benefit of this corrupt regime. That has been the story of the past almost 5 decades. The difference lies in this change and how crucial it is.

Of course, the reason we want to have a secular democracy—the final form to be determined by the people of Iran through free elections and a constitutional process—is that, most importantly, under equality and the rule of law, all the opportunities that have been denied our nation as a result of its discrimination and of pretty much disenfranchising the majority of Iranians now create a true opportunity.

As I said earlier, I think Iranians are quite gifted. As much as it is attractive to entrepreneurs in the outside world looking in, there are so many gifted and talented young Iranians who will have a fair chance this time—a true chance to use all their creativity and genius to bring our country back online. This will be an excellent, fantastic partnership that we're looking forward to.

You've spoken about wanting to be on the ground there. What conditions and what timeline do you have for yourself? This seems like a pretty high-risk thing to do. It would be pretty brave of you to go to the country now. What conditions have to be met for you to go to Iran, to go home for the first time in 47 years? How close do you think we are to people taking to the streets now and starting this transition?

To be honest with you, it's very difficult to put an exact timeline on it. Factors that will expedite it are the level of separation from the regime, the level of defections, and the strengthening of domestic organizations and structures. How can we partner with elements from within that are not joining this campaign? All of these are factors that will contribute to the rapidity of the transition.

As far as my being there, obviously there are security concerns to make sure that it's safe enough for me to go there. I'm no use to anyone if I'm dead, so obviously we have to keep that in mind. But I would like to be able to be there as soon as possible, to be able to help as much as I can in this process. Obviously, being in a country is an advantage. It's hard to do things from far away. I had no choice but to live in exile because of the circumstances, but I think that the opportunity is presenting itself, and the first opportunity that is created for me to safely return to Iran, I will obviously be there.

Just this morning, Trump said there will be no deal in Iran until unconditional surrender is given by whatever is left of the government there. What do you think of that condition? Is that the right move? Do you agree with Trump's ultimatum?

Let me look at it from the domestic prism. In order for a successful transition to occur, it ultimately has to be something that is legitimate in the eyes of the Iranian people. We have lost so many tens of thousands of lives just to settle for a continuity of the remnants of this regime. That will not fly. People will want to have a clean break.

The alternative will be for all those who align with the secular democratic alternative, which is based on 4 core principles, to work together on that platform. Whoever adheres to them, including people who may today peel away from the regime, would be able to agree to work together on that platform.

The first and foremost issue is, of course, Iran's territorial integrity. That's an issue that is very close to the hearts of millions of Iranians representing every aspect of our diversified country in terms of ethnicities, religions, and what have you. But we find ourselves in this united cause under 1 flag and under 1 nation.

The second element that is a prerequisite to democracy is a clear separation of religion from the state. That's a critical element for a democracy to occur. Equality of all citizens under the law and the rule of law, obviously, is a critical aspect that guarantees all of the rights we're talking about.

The fourth principle is the democratic process itself, meaning the fact that people can elect representatives to go to this constitutional assembly to debate what the next system could look like and what its laws should be, with those laws ratified by the people. That would bring us to the election of the first parliament of this new democracy and, of course, the election of the first government of such a democracy, at which point the transitional government hands over power to the elected representatives of the people in the future government.

That's pretty much the direction that we hope to manage this transition, and I'm playing a role in bringing about this transition with a very well-crafted plan that explains in detail, particularly focusing on the first 100 days. I created an organization called IPP, the Iran Prosperity Project, but its first focus is the first 100 days: how we immediately stabilize the situation in Iran and how we can maximize the remaining elements that will join with us to be able to survive regime change and have a place in the future. These are the first components, and then we move forward with the plan.

Two quick questions. Under no circumstances would that be a monarchy? I think this is a question everybody has for you because you're the prince. This is a democracy. We don't have princes in democracies.

And then, number two, what do you ideally see as your role in the transition? Would you like to have the opportunity to run for president and to lead the country out of this horrific nightmare of 47 years?

My focus is on the process, not the outcome. As a neutral arbiter, I'm not taking sides with one form versus the other. That's for the people of Iran to choose.

I think the world has seen successful models in both the republican system and a monarchic system. Examples of republics include India, Israel, France, and the United States. They're not exactly the same, but those are examples of republican structures. In terms of parliamentary monarchies, we have the examples of Japan, Sweden, Spain, and other countries.

I don't think that necessarily you can equate democracy with one outcome in particular. It could be both models that people can emulate. At the end of the day, again, it's not for me to choose the outcome. I'm here to be a bridge toward that outcome.

That's the function of a transitional leader: not to run for office or to have an aim for personal position, power, or authority, but to be the element that unites the country toward a common purpose and allows the nation to decide what its preferred system is. That's what elections and free elections should be all about.

The ballot box is the only means to measure people's opinion, and the majority will decide on that. That's the process that I envisage to bring about.

What do you believe the people of Iran want? In that monarchy subset, there are the Gulf monarchies—Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and Qatar. They are obviously distinctly different from a parliamentary system, so I assume you wouldn't want to see that. What do you think the people of Iran will vote for?

Just what you said. A democratic system clearly outlines how it should be and how it should not. If you want to look at the closest monarchy to the United States, technically speaking, it's Canada. Canadians are quite happy with the democracy that they enjoy.

Again, we have very good models of republics. Case in point, the United States. At the end of the day, as I said, it's for the Iranian people to determine what would be in their best interest, having looked this time—unlike what happened, by the way, 50 years ago.

Nobody had a clear idea what Khomeini was suggesting in terms of this Velayat-e Faqih, as they call it, or the tutelage of the supreme leader. By the time he took over and power was established, it was too late. Since then, we've been hostages to this regime.

This time, in full transparency, the Iranian people ought to have a clear idea of the different models presented to them. On that basis, having understood every aspect of what it could be, they can make their choice. This is a process that should be totally transparent, with enough time for debating different ideas.

Again, as I said, let the democratic process unfold, and let the people vote by majority on what their final choice is. I'm not here to determine an outcome. Again, I stress: my role here is to manage this transition and create an opportunity that people have been deprived of for half a century—to finally have a say as to what they like to have for themselves in terms of sovereignty and determining their own future democratically.

Final question, and then I'll get into a bunch of details with you, Shervin, as to the plan, which I know you're helping construct and I'm assuming you'll help execute on. Trump says he's going to pick the next leader. Trump says a lot of things. He says them sometimes in a provocative way, but he said he's not sure how you would play within your own country.

There are obviously people holding up your picture. There are people who are maybe vying to take control of this from the previous administration. Are you in touch with President Trump, and what's your relationship with him today? What's your best plea to him, or your argument to him, to work with you?

Look, there's nothing hidden in the agenda. Everything is transparent, and I've been communicating with the administration through Steve Witkoff, who announced it publicly. That was our channel to President Trump.

On the other side, in the legislature, I've been communicating with members of Congress, senators, and congresspeople to understand a little bit from the American prism what it is that we are proposing here. I don't think that President Trump or any other leader in this world would presume that it's up to them to determine who should be the next leader in Iran.

I'm sure, as democracies, they respect the right for people to make that choice. As Western democracies, it should go without saying that they would believe that the right to choose the future leaders is only up to the Iranian people.

If the intention is to assist that process, if the intent is to support the Iranian people in their democratic aspiration, you provide them with the help, but the choice should be theirs. That has been my position, and I don't think there's a disagreement on that, whether it is with President Trump or other world leaders that I've also talked to about this matter.

As you go, what should the American people know about the spirit, the culture, and the people of Iran, including the people who fled in 1979, like you and your family?

I know many Americans who have many Iranian friends. As a matter of fact, if you just look at the Iranian diaspora in the United States alone, you will see how much interaction there is between Iranians who are now Iranian Americans, if you will, and the kinds of relationships that have been built with their American counterparts.

Many people have connections through marriage. Many people have connections through business affiliations. Many people have worked with Iranians. Many of the high-tech companies, including those in Silicon Valley, employ so many Iranians, or they are themselves entrepreneurs. This is the kind of potential, and I'm sure Shervin will talk to you more about that, but this is the kind of connection there is.

For Americans who have traveled to Iran or have known Iranians all these years, they know what country it represents and what amount of culture, arts, and civilization—in the true sense—Iranians represent. They've been completely suffocated under this regime.

Once Iran is free from its shackles, I'm sure a lot of Americans will know the difference between an Iran that wants to be friends with America and the regime that has, from its inception, called for death to America or death to Israel, for instance. There are Iranians who actually love America.

Let me just give you a last parting thought, because every now and then I need to remind your audience and other audiences. We talked about other countries in the region. Remember 9/11?

Yes.

How many people on the streets of many of the so-called allies of the United States were celebrating that attack on that sinister day? The only country in the entire world, and in the entire region, that actually stood in candlelight vigils in sympathy with the victims of the 9/11 terrorist attacks was none other than Iran, with the Iranian people holding candlelight vigils in Iran.

They've been messaging America for years now: “We are not your enemies.” In fact, they would chant slogans in Iran saying, “They lie to us. It’s America. Our enemy is right here.”

This is the Iran I'm talking about. This is the people I'm talking about. I know many Americans, both in the civilian sector, including military forces in America, who know that. I think that's something that I'm sure I'm not the only one talking about. You will hear from other Iranians who will pretty much confirm what I just said.

That's why this partnership is so vital for us, because together we'll be able to rebuild a different world. Iran will bring an element of stability to the region and beyond, and that can only play to the interest of America itself. We need to have this vital partnership, and I think we'll be able to succeed because I see everybody now is very much committed to working together toward bringing this agenda forward.

We're all praying for the people of Iran to have a democracy. What an amazing moment it will be when you get to return in whatever capacity and help this transition, and 93 million people who have been suffering will be living free in a democracy.

The impact that could have on the world, and obviously on that region, would be by far the largest democracy in the Middle East. This could have ramifications in terms of humanity that would be absolutely stunning and beautiful, and the prosperity would be amazing.

The Iranian people I met in my life, Prince, when I was living in Los Angeles—all these great Persians I would meet—were some of the most joyful, industrious, beautiful individuals I've met. They remind me of my Greek and Irish heritage, including you, Shervin.

Prince Reza, thank you so much for your time. I know you're extremely busy.

It's very important for the All-In audience to hear from you, understand what's going on, and understand your vision. We would love to have you back when you're on the ground with your people and your people are free. Thank you again. Looking forward to it.

All right, Shervin. Thank you so much for setting this up. I ask for very few favors from my friends, but as a good friend, you made this happen for the All-In community, so I thank you for that.

Of course.

And as I said to the prince and to the Persians here in the United States, maybe you can tell us a little bit about your story, what this means to you, and then we can get into your involvement here and what you hope to see in those first 100 days.

Of course. First of all, Jason, thank you for opening up this tremendous platform to the Iranian people and to the prince. As you can see, Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi is a great man, the most courageous man that I've ever met, and he's the highest-integrity human I've met as well.

We're very blessed as a people to have a leader like him, who has lived a very clean life and has stepped up in a very courageous way. He's put it all on the line for his people and his legacy, to play this tremendous transitional role and evolve the Iranian nation into a democracy. This long nightmare of 47 years that all of my Iranian brothers and sisters have suffered through is almost over.

We also have tremendous gratitude to President Trump for his courageous leadership on this matter. I don't think any other president has had the courage, principles, and values to take on this Islamic regime of terror. As you saw last month, they massacred over 43,000 Iranians who were just peacefully protesting. They gunned them down with anti-materiel bullets. I put up a post of a Coca-Cola can next to these bullets. It was bigger than the can.

And this is super important to meditate on for a second here. This regime is a murderous and evil regime. To turn those guns and mow down 40,000 and over 40,000 individuals who were peacefully protesting is an act of savagery and brutality that I think most people don't fully appreciate. There hasn't been enough coverage of that fact.

No. And you are a bipartisan-type person. I've known you for many years. You were a super-funder of Obama. He wasn't able to get this done. Biden wasn't able to get this done. Bush wasn't able to get this done. This has been something that presidents have struggled with.

You have to give Trump credit here. There's a lot of debate over why this is happening. Is Israel driving it? Is it the relationship with China? We talked about that in Part 1. At the end of the day, as a son of Iran, what's important is that the people are free. All these other conspiracy theories and motivations do not matter to you or the people, yeah?

Absolutely not. One of my key principles is our moral security precedes our physical security. This has as much to do with American security as it does Iranian security and livelihood.

As you saw, this regime is not only evil enough to mow down 43,000 innocent people in 48 hours; its reaction to this liberation operation is to attack over 12 countries in the region. Imagine if they had a nuclear bomb. They would use it. They would use it. There's not even a doubt in my mind that they would have used it by now if they had it.

So this is incredibly important for America's national security. As the prince mentioned, 9/11 happened. That's the same kind of ideology, except the problem we have in our modern time is that criminal and terrorist organizations have taken over sovereign nations with nuclear bombs or are seeking nuclear bombs. We have Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran. And then you have Venezuela.

The president has not only gotten rid of Maduro in Venezuela, he has now begun this process of dismantling this Islamic regime, which is absolutely not a legitimate government and not a legitimate nation-state. The only leader who is legitimate to lead us through a transition process to become a democracy is Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi.

We are very lucky, I think, in our modern times to have 3 leaders who are living at the same time and leading at the same time: President Trump, Prime Minister Netanyahu, and Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi, all in this one moment in time. I think we're living in biblical times.

When 10/7 happened, I started the Israeli-Iranian Alliance with Michael Eisenberg, Michael Broukhim, Jesse Maiman, and Shawn Rad, and we started to host these salons with the Crown Prince. One was in New York. Michael Eisenberg flew in, as did Dan Loeb, and lots of leaders came.

That was the beginning of the process, seeded with a breakfast with Michael Eisenberg, a VC and the number-one VC in Israel 15 years ago, where we said, "We have to do more between the Israeli and Jewish communities and the Persian-Iranian community, and someday we're going to have tea in Tehran."

We wrote an op-ed last year about this, and we began to build these bridges. This connection between the Jewish people and the Iranian people goes back 2,500 years. Cyrus the Great, who's in the Bible, freed the Jews from slavery in Babylon, returned them to their homeland in Jerusalem, and rebuilt their temple. He is celebrated for that courageous act in the Bible and in Jewish religious holidays.

It is a tremendous connection that, 2,500 years later, has a kind of biblical symmetry. You have the Jewish people helping free the Iranian people from their slavery.

At the same time, there's a connection between America's beginning that many people don't know about. Thomas Jefferson was a student of Cyrus the Great, who declared the first declaration of human rights. A lot of the principles that went into the Declaration of Independence of America, the founding of America, the Bill of Rights, and the Constitution have their roots in Cyrus the Great and Persian history.

This connection between America's founding and the principles that Iranians have espoused for 2,500 years is a beautiful connection between the Jewish people, the American people, and the Iranian people. This could have such a tremendous impact on the region.

You have essentially a lone democracy in Israel, and now you could have 93 million Iranians in a democracy. If that can be achieved—and listen, there's a long way to go—this could spiral out of control. This was a very high-risk move by President Trump, so you give him a lot of credit for that. But he has to own this.

Let's be humble, and we've got to pray for the best here. Things can spiral out of control in these kinds of situations. But let's hope that we do get to democracy there.

I'm curious, Shervin. You spent a lot of time in the Middle East. Over the last 3 years, I've gotten myself educated and caught up, I hope, and I've started doing business there and really meeting a larger swath of people.

The Gulf monarchies have modernized incredibly, starting with the UAE, Saudi—now the kingdom—and, of course, Qatar as well, with Oman and Kuwait modernizing. What would Iran going straight to a democracy, if that is even possible, do to the region in your mind?

I think that everything the Gulf countries have done is a tremendous case study of what the potential for the Middle East really is. Being blessed by God to have oil and gas, as most GCC countries do—and Iran also has—gives them an advantage to have the resources independently to develop themselves.

When you look at what happened in the UAE over the last 25 years, I went to the UAE in 2001 or 2002, and there was a smattering of buildings there.

Yeah, I've seen the pictures of Dubai then and now.

It's incredible. It's incredible. It reminds me of what America was like in the 1950s, when America came back from World War II, Eisenhower built the Interstate Highway System, and America developed into this superpower.

In many ways, the GCC countries espoused that American mentality that everything is possible, anything is possible. They've manifested their greatness.

You look at Iran, and you have 93 million unbelievably brilliant people who have been held back. You look at the Iranian diaspora in America, just our friends: Dara Khosrowshahi at Uber, myself at Uber, of course, Omid Kordestani at Google, Ali at Databricks, and Pierre Omidyar at eBay. When you add up the numbers, it gets to trillions of dollars of value created by this small population of Iranians in America, especially in Silicon Valley.

I've been blessed to be part of that circle. Thank God for America; we had a safe sanctuary to come and develop our brilliance. But there are as many brilliant Iranians—way more brilliant Iranians—

Yeah, on a numbers basis, it's a magnitude more.

And so a free, democratic Iran will be the greatest peace dividend and economic dividend to be gifted to the world and to the region. I think what will happen is we will have an acceleration of the Middle East becoming this unbelievable place where innovation and investment in the future are happening.

We're at the dawn of AGI and advanced superintelligence. We have quantum computing, which you and I, Emil Michael, and others have done with our SPAC, D-Wave. These technologies are going to fast-forward humanity, and being able to tap into the resources of the Middle East and Iran—in human capital and in oil and gas wealth—to unleash an accelerated future is something that we all look forward to.

One of the things the team has worked on is the Crown Prince's vision. This is a 175-page report right here: the Iran Prosperity Project. I'm blessed to be an advisor there with many other very talented Iranians. Piece by piece, month by month, it has a sequence of plans to rebuild Iran, as the Crown Prince was talking about, so that when there is a free Iran, there will be a 4-month process to get to a referendum, followed by a 6-month process to assemble Iranians to write a constitution, and then a 14-month process to finalize the constitution and have a vote on it.

So you'll have a sequence of events that will lead to a legal framework where the new Iran will be able to execute this tremendous plan and rebuild all aspects and all sectors of the economy. That'll lead to this new Iran that we've all been dreaming and praying for. This plan has been worked on for some time.

He seems like he's got a third or so of the constituents there who are in favor of him. There are some people who are strongly opposed to him. Last time, his father was not perfect, and he's answered many of the hard questions about his father's tenure.

What are the chances that the existing regime, what's left of it—there are people in it who would collaborate on moving to a democracy where religion and the government were specifically separated? This was something MBS was able to do in Saudi, but not without strong resistance and great risk to himself. This is a high-risk thing with some of these radicalized individuals who want religion to rule over democracy. So maybe you can unpack that a bit.

Absolutely. The vast majority of Iranians want a separation of church and state, mosque and state. We've had a 47-year A/B test, in Silicon Valley speak, of what happens when you have a system controlled by mullahs. It has led to absolute disaster, mayhem, and evil.

The vast majority are out there, and they're saying Reza Pahlavi's name. If you look at the videos from January, they're saying, “Javid Shah.” They're saying his name and calling for his return. He called on them to come into the streets at 8:00 p.m. on the 8th and 9th, and they came out in droves and by the millions in response to him.

So the idea that we don't know who the Iranian people want to help lead this transition process—the proof is in the pudding. You just have to look at the videos and the actual facts. He's the only leader that Iranians are calling out by name to come back. They're also calling for Trump and Netanyahu to please help save them from this terror regime.

As we've seen in the last week, their prayers have been answered in a tremendous way. What is going to happen is basically a dismantling and a defanging of this regime's capabilities to use terror and its military capabilities, and we have to let that run its course. As the president said, this is probably about 4 weeks of work. There was a leak, I think, in The Washington Post today that the 82nd Airborne was activated, and that's a signal that this could potentially lead to even more support in this liberation operation to completely dismantle this regime.

Defections are a big part of the strategy. Have the defections started yet, or is that too risky for the individuals on the ground? What are you hearing through your back channels?

The Crown Prince had a system for people to communicate securely with him and his team, and over 50,000 people in the military have actually responded to that. You saw some defections that went viral during the protests and before the protests, involving different military members.

We expect that as the dismantling process continues—and, as you saw, the top leadership of the IRGC was eradicated in the first 24 hours—the rest of those who remain will realize that it's a very rational thing to do. The Supreme Leader, Khamenei, was an absolutely evil man who was gone in the first 60 seconds. He spent 47 years threatening the world. He lasted 60 seconds. That's going to continue. And so I think it's going to be a very rational thing for the rest of those who remain to realize that if they don't actually have a complete surrender and capitulate. And for the ones who haven't actually executed the orders of genocide against the Iranian people, there'll be an opportunity to be part of the reformation and reconstruction of Iran. The plan says that even people in the military will be able to either have early retirement, for those who didn't execute those acts of terror against the Iranian people, or, for others who are talented and have the ability and desire to serve, they'll be able to show up at work, continue to get paid, and have some role in the military and the government.

So this isn't going to be a hunting down of people. The hunting down is happening right now. There'll be a process of peace, reconstruction, and rehabilitation. We're also going to need a lot of specialists to come in and help people with the trauma they've been through for 47 years. This is going to be multi-threaded, multigenerational trauma.

Tell me about the Kurds being backed by Assad and the CIA reportedly backing militias in the West. That's going to play a role, yeah?

I think we have to be very, very careful, because a red line for the Iranian people is that we have existed as a country for 5,000 years and as a people for 5,000 years. Wherever invaders came in or out, we always outlasted our invaders. These people who have taken over for 47 years were occupiers. They weren't truly Iranians. They were occupiers of this country, and they'll be booted, just like Genghis Khan and everyone else who came into Iran were booted.

It's very important that, if there's any kind of separatist movement, we will lose the goodwill and support of millions and millions of Iranians. It has to be one country. The territorial integrity of Iran must be protected. That's a red line for the Crown Prince, and it's a red line for the Iranian people.

Wherever there is collaboration, we can work together to fight for the transition to be completed, for a march on Tehran, and for the Crown Prince to come back to lead this transition and physically return to his homeland.

You've never been able to go back, or have you snuck in?

I haven't been back. Basically, I was born in 1976. Under the last Shah, my dad was one of many brilliant people sent on scholarships around the world. The Iranian community in graduate schools and universities was the largest population in the 1970s. The last Shah was educating this whole class of people, and we were going back to rebuild Iran into this great nation. We were at the cusp of greatness.

My father came to Washington, D.C., where I am right now, and I grew up here, on 16th Street in Washington. He got his master's degree at Catholic University from 1976 to 1978. I remember when we first came; it was the bicentennial of America, our 200th anniversary. We returned to Iran in 1978, right before the revolution. It was really bad timing.

My dad had been promoted to head of radio and television for the Shah, and then the revolution happened. Khomeini was coming back, and my dad made the courageous decision to help the U.S. Embassy get radio communications devices to them and do foreign-language broadcasts to tell foreigners in Iran how to get out of the country. This was for the different embassies.

Khomeini and Khamenei put my father, Abraham, on the execution list. He went into hiding for 10 months. I didn't see my dad for 10 months. In a kind of kismet moment, someone he had helped get a job in radio and television came to our home and said to my mom, “I want to help.”

She didn't trust him and said, “I don't know where he is,” but she checked with my dad, and he said, “No, you can trust him.” That guy was the new head of security for Mehrabad Airport in Tehran. He personally met my father.

I remember this moment: I woke up to my brother crying, and my dad was at the door after 10 months to say goodbye because he didn't know if he was going to survive. He went to the airport, met his friend, and his friend walked him onto the Air France flight. Crying, he flew out and came to America, and the people he had helped then helped him get his papers and everything in order.

Then we were stuck in Iran for 2 years. Saddam invaded, bombs were falling on us every night, and the sirens were going off. So we escaped with my mom and my brother and sister and came to America with $35. My dad was driving a taxi while getting his PhD—a great paradox. My mom was a maid.

[Laughter.] Yeah, I did Uber. It actually helped.

Great irony. He loves irony. That was one of the things in my first meeting with Jason and Travis. I told him that story, and I know that growing up in an orange-and-black taxi cab in Washington, D.C., helped me win the Uber deal against all the greatest in venture.

Yeah, it's all full circle. Only in America would that be possible. The son of a taxi driver and a maid, coming to America with nothing, being able to have the blessing of the life that we've had—

Fantastic.

I've never forgotten those roots. I've tried to serve America.

I’m now helping in any way that I can to help the Crown Prince in this transition process for a free Iran and rebuild Iran into something great.

What’s extraordinary to me about the Iranian people is that they have maintained, even under this oppression, that spirit. Forty-seven years later, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the Anthony Bourdain episode when he goes there. It always touched me. I don’t know if that was a decade ago when he did it. And he said:

“I can’t believe it. These people are Americans. They’re eating Pizza Hut. They’re listening to music. They’re having some beers on their back porch. They’re dancing. They are on VPNs, understanding culture and what’s going on around the world, even under the oppression. Women, gays, everybody in between—they’re suffering, and they still have that joy of life. Every person I’ve ever met will stay with you, like the Greeks or the Irish. They will close the restaurant. They will talk, and when the restaurant closes its doors, they go into the restaurant, sit down, and just talk for another hour.”

They’re some of the most beautiful people I’ve ever met. I’m so glad that you are engaged in this. I very much appreciate you bringing the prince.

Thank you, Jason. I do understand the soul of the Iranian. We love to host our friends on the sofa, and they truly are as American as you can be.

We love our freedom. We’ve suffered for so long, and we’re so thankful for President Trump having the courage to take on this evil regime. We look forward to hosting All-In Podcast in Tehran.

That would be sooner than later. One of the great bucket lists of my life is to be able to go to Tehran, host the podcast there, and have tea with you in Tehran. Let’s put it on the schedule a year from today.

We’ll have food in the world. I can’t wait to take you to Tehran.

What’s the signature dish? What’s your favorite?

Everyone loves the Persian kebabs, right? But the kebabs in Iran are something else. It’s a tremendous food culture, and the national dish is called ghormeh sabzi, which is a stew of lamb. My mom was the greatest Persian cook in the world, and she would cook it for 3 days. These foods—I can’t wait to break bread with you in a free Iran.

Incredible. That’s one of the things the Greeks and the Iranians share: that love of lamb. I cannot wait.

All right, my brother. Thank you. I’m so glad you’re engaged in this. It gives me hope, and good luck in the next 3, 4, 5 weeks. Let’s hope and pray for the best. Thank you.