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Sharp Tech · · 21 分钟

(预告)AI阴影下的 App Store、网络安全攻防、财务规划问答、AI写作与美国体育

Andrew SharpBen Thompson

播客
TL;DR
  • Ben Thompson 对 Apple 监管变化的元结论是:现在已经没人关心了,包括他自己。 FT 报道称,Apple 首次承认,迫使 App Store 放松控制的监管变化正在拖累其规模超过1000亿美元的服务业务;与此同时,欧盟就 DMA 达成和解,Apple 提议在美国对标准应用收取15%佣金,德国裁决则要求 Apple 自有服务与第三方应用使用相同的 ATT 授权请求文案。那个曾经痴迷 App Store 的人如今几乎当场睡着了:“现在已经没人关心了。我认为这才是更大的问题,包括我在内。”
  • AI 把注意力转向了新的增长故事,而增长让零和争夺显得没那么重要。 “痴迷 App Store 是停滞的象征”:蛋糕变大时,“所有不可避免存在的问题……都没那么重要”;蛋糕不再增长时,切分它就会变得“压倒一切、无所不包”。“这正是欧盟大体上错在低估增长的地方。”
  • 同样的注意力转移也波及 TikTok,尽管 Ben 认为它可能比以往更重要。 “TikTok 问题实际上是当今科技行业面临的最大问题”:中国是否在幕后操控内容,借此阻碍某些 AI 数据中心建设?Ben 认为这是“合理的担忧”,并称如果中国不这么做,反而会“失职”;Andrew 也表示认同,但承认这个问题获得的关注度已经不如3或4年前。
  • App Store 被低估的故事,是 Apple 对应用构建服务施加的限制。 几个月来,Apple 不允许通过 Replit 类服务制作的应用自行更新,除非先砍掉部分功能,包括运行其他应用的能力。Ben 承认存在“合理的安全担忧”,也认可 iPhone 的沙盒机制,但认为 Apple “什么都想抽成”。Shortcuts 是一个强大却晦涩的 AI 用例,而“Apple 正在扼杀未来的一部分”;只是当下大家都觉得机会遍地,这个问题显得没那么紧迫。
  • 德国关于 ATT 的裁决方向正确,但晚了4年。 ATT “荒唐地反竞争,而且是非常经典意义上的反竞争”——给竞争对手的追踪提示令人恐惧,给 Apple 自有追踪功能的措辞却十分安抚,规则还在事后朝有利于 Apple 的方向修改。Ben 的结论是:“这是一个好的结果。他们做得很彻底。”但广告生态在此期间早已被重塑。
  • 监管时机的教训是:宁可晚些抓住坏人,也不要过早扼杀增长引擎。 “App Store 过去很棒,现在依然很棒”——它为数万亿美元的价值和“天量消费者剩余”打下了基础;“如果过早担心坏事……好事就不会发生……最终你什么也没监管到。”Andrew 的补充是,他没有那么反对监管,但 AI 变化太快,如果在弄清它的使用方式和实际运行机制之前就开始监管,“几乎注定错的多、对的少”。
摘要 · 为研究而整理的核心内容

1. Apple 在 App Store 上松口——昔日痴迷者却听睡着了

  • Andrew 先引用 FT 报道称,Apple 首次承认,迫使 App Store 放松控制的监管变化正在拖累其规模超过1000亿美元的服务业务。他还提到,Apple 已就 DMA 与欧盟达成和解,提议在美国对标准应用收取15%佣金;德国竞争监管机构则认定,Apple 不能再对自有服务和第三方应用使用不同的授权请求文案。Ben 的回应是:“抱歉,这个话题太无聊,我都睡着了。”
  • Ben 很早就盯上了这个话题——Felix Salmon 曾把 App Store 作为自己通讯中经典的“没人关心的个人执念”案例;疫情期间,企业纷纷把线下课程搬到线上,Apple 还坚持收取30%,这场争论也达到高潮。那段经历几乎耗尽了 Ben:他依然喜欢科技和内容创作,虽然被剪辑传播令人烦恼,但真正让他对这份工作感到沮丧的,是长达5小时的国会听证和监管事务。
  • 写完《Aggregation Theory》仅2或3周后,他就预判监管和诉讼不可避免,并认为把反垄断法用于聚合平台不会奏效。

2. 增长是化解政治冲突的溶剂;停滞只剩切蛋糕

  • 贯穿始终的主线是:对 App Store 的痴迷“是停滞的象征”——人们在争夺一块已经停止增长的蛋糕,试图重新切分它。“这正是欧盟大体上错在低估增长的地方。”
  • 谈到 Epic,他在理念上认可 Tim Sweeney“为这场斗争而战”,但一家数十亿美元级公司,围绕“从销售虚拟舞蹈中谁能拿到更高比例”展开争论,而这门生意“边际成本完全为零”,很难得到同情。“现在已经没人关心了……包括我。”

3. TikTok 可能比以往更重要,Apple 却在扼杀应用开发

  • Andrew 承认,过去他本来会围绕 TikTok 写出“几篇3000或4000字的文章”,如今却很难再调动同样的热情。Ben 随后给出一个值得保留的反转观点:“TikTok 问题实际上是当今科技行业面临的最大问题”:中国是否在幕后操控内容,试图阻止某些 AI 数据中心建设?Ben 认为这是“合理的担忧”,并称如果中国不这么做,反而是在“失职”;Andrew 也表示认同。
  • 一个被低估的 App Store 故事,涉及 Replit 等帮助用户制作应用的服务。几个月来,Apple 不允许这些应用自行更新,除非它们砍掉部分功能,包括运行其他应用的能力。Ben 承认存在“合理的安全担忧”,也称赞 iPhone 从第一天起就通过沙盒机制隔离应用;但他认为 Apple 希望所有东西都通过 App Store,以便从中抽成。他以 Shortcuts 为例:这是一个强大但难以上手的 AI 用例,AI 本可以帮助用户搭建快捷指令。“Apple 正在扼杀未来的一部分”,但当大家都觉得机会正在打开时,这件事并不紧迫,因此始终没有形成足够关注。

4. 德国 ATT 裁决:方向正确,但晚了4年

  • 在 Ben 看来,ATT “荒唐地反竞争……而且是非常经典意义上的反竞争”:Apple 给竞争对手设置令人恐惧的追踪提示,给自家追踪功能的请求却是“哦,我们想给你更好的体验”——实质上完全是同一件事。Ben 补充说,在美国法律下,把限制事项如实明示出来不一定构成反垄断违法;Google 在 Epic 案中的问题,是事后改变规则。Apple 则同样在事后改变规则,而且明显偏袒自己。
  • Ben 翻找旧链接时发现,他的《Data and Definitions》文章开头写的正是这起德国调查启动的消息——“我甚至没意识到这是同一个案子……已经过去4年了。”他的结论是:“他们做得很彻底,我认为正确的事情正在发生。”但他也承认,广告生态早已围绕 ATT 重构,这种滞后仍然令人沮丧。

5. 宁可晚些监管后端,也不要让前端根本起不来

  • Ben 将欧盟 AI Act 与欧盟在 AI 领域相对缺乏进展,以及该法本身的局限性联系起来。他认为,推动立法的部分动力来自一种“我们太晚通过 DMA 了”的心态;如今,AI Act 又推动了关于水印的讨论。他形容 Mistral 的大动作“基本上”是在为中国模型充当数据中心运营商。
  • 他的核心论点是:App Store “过去很棒,现在依然很棒”,为数万亿美元的价值和天量消费者剩余奠定了基础。Ben 宁愿先获得“所有这些上行空间”,再晚一点处理 Apple 在后端扮演坏人的问题;如果一开始就盯着后端,“那样你甚至根本走不到后端,最终什么也没监管到。”
  • Andrew 对 AI 的补充是,他没有那么反对监管,但 AI 变化太快,如果在弄清它究竟如何被使用、实际运行机制是什么之前就开始监管,“几乎注定错的多、对的少”。
Andrew Sharp

Hello, and welcome to a free preview of Sharp Tech. Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Sharp Tech. I'm Andrew Sharp, and on the other line, Ben Thompson. Ben, how are you doing?

Ben Thompson

I'm doing okay.

Andrew Sharp

Mm.

Ben Thompson

This week, Wisconsin does get fairly muggy. It doesn't really bother me. People here complain, “It's so hot and muggy.” I'm like, “The 20 years in Taiwan have inoculated me.” We'll see if it might be knocked out of my memory pretty quickly, though. I did adjust to the cold very well. I think if you adjust to the cold very well, you do not adjust to humidity very well.

Andrew Sharp

Okay.

Ben Thompson

But there's that moment when it's so pleasant out—and it's so pleasant out because the dew point drops—

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

…which means the humidity is gone, which is the first hint of winter. So there's the little twist in the air, and we had a discussion about where we're going to move the lawnmower. The snowblower is going to take a spot.

Andrew Sharp

Oh, boy.

Ben Thompson

The planning has begun.

Andrew Sharp

Start battening down the hatches.

Ben Thompson

Yes. I'm taking my daughter off to college later today. I've always thought about years in terms of the school year.

Andrew Sharp

Okay.

Ben Thompson

The new season is starting, the new year of Stratechery is starting, the new year of my kid's school is starting, and—

Andrew Sharp

And winter is coming.

Ben Thompson

When winter is coming.

Andrew Sharp

Well, I'm ready at this point.

Ben Thompson

Is that a Game of Thrones reference?

Andrew Sharp

It is, but not intentionally so. I'm 100% ready for fall at least, not necessarily winter, but I've had enough humidity here in DC. It was pretty funny walking around Madison and talking to some of your friends out there and hearing them say, “Oh, it's pretty muggy and gross outside.” It felt great to me as I was walking around Madison. It's fine.

Ben Thompson

Yeah.

1. Max Verstappen Stays At Red Bull

Andrew Sharp

Indeed. Yep. Packers season is coming. Here we go. We will begin with a topic that we have hit many a time here on this show.

Ben Thompson

Yeah. Oh, yeah. So I can lead on this, a topic we've hit many a time. It's also very good news for me.

Andrew Sharp

Okay.

Ben Thompson

I'm just glad I don't have to buy new gear.

Andrew Sharp

Why's that?

Ben Thompson

Oh, I thought we were talking about Max Verstappen re-signing with Red Bull.

Andrew Sharp

Oh, there we go.

Ben Thompson

So, yeah.

Andrew Sharp

I actually completely forgot about that.

Ben Thompson

F1 merchandise is unbelievably expensive.

Andrew Sharp

It costs you a pretty penny, that's right.

Ben Thompson

That's right.

Andrew Sharp

You are paying for college right now.

Ben Thompson

And I can stick with what I have. By the way, Red Bull just has great stuff.

Andrew Sharp

Oh, my God.

Ben Thompson

A big win for me in that regard. Not a big win if Max doesn't win, so I need Red Bull to get the car in order.

Andrew Sharp

Yeah.

Ben Thompson

But hey, it's always good to save some money.

Andrew Sharp

Well, look, there was a good chance that he was just going to walk away, or at least a nonzero possibility. He's not walking away, so that's a win for racing fans everywhere. And your note on the gear is really true. I'm not a Red Bull hater anymore, but when I visited a Grand Prix 4 or 5 years ago, I was a Red Bull hater, and I remember walking through the merch tent being infuriated by how cool the Red Bull merch was. So I'm glad that you get to hang on to that in the years to come.

Ben Thompson

Yeah.

Andrew Sharp

Good for you, good for Max.

Ben Thompson

My $70 hats are still going to be useful, as is a $150 raincoat. Actually, that might have been more expensive than that. So I'm good to go.

Andrew Sharp

Oh, my God.

Ben Thompson

It's unbelievable.

2. Apple Loosens App Store Control

Andrew Sharp

All right. Well, the Financial Times earlier this month wrote that, “Apple has acknowledged for the first time that regulatory changes forcing it to loosen control of its App Store are weighing on its more than $100 billion services business, a rare concession that antitrust action is beginning to dent one of the company's most profitable divisions.”

And lo and behold, Ben, in the wake of that Financial Times news and Apple's disclosure, we have a settlement in the EU over the Digital Markets Act. Apple proposed new commissions of 15% for standard apps in the United States, while Germany's competition authority responded to Apple's App Tracking Transparency changes from several years ago and held that Apple can no longer use different language when it sends a data consent request for Apple's own offerings versus a data consent request predefined by Apple for third-party apps. As someone who has been pushing for changes to these policies for quite some time, long before it was cool, what comes to mind when you hear about these changes for Apple?

Ben Thompson

What?

Andrew Sharp

What?

Ben Thompson

Oh, sorry, I fell asleep because the topic felt so boring. But I wanted to talk more about that. No, my takeaway here is actually kind of a meta takeaway.

Andrew Sharp

Okay.

Ben Thompson

Which is not Meta, the company—

Andrew Sharp

That's where I wanted to go. I don't want to get into the nitty-gritty. Let's go meta on all this.

Ben Thompson

Meta—

Andrew Sharp

Yeah.

Ben Thompson

So, number 1, I was very early to this. I cared about this a lot. I wrote about it a lot early in Stratechery. I've told this story about Felix, the financial analyst—

Andrew Sharp

Felix Salmon.

Ben Thompson

Yeah, analyzing what makes a good newsletter, and, oh, you have to have your pet obsessions that no one cares about, and he listed the App Store as one of them.

Andrew Sharp

This guy.

Ben Thompson

Yeah.

Andrew Sharp

It's really worked out.

Ben Thompson

Yeah. And I think it really reached a sort of fever pitch during the COVID era, in part because that's when the services revenues were really skyrocketing, in part because everyone was stuck at home. There are secular factors that do drive this. Apple was really cracking down on—remember companies would have in-person classes, and they tried to make them virtual classes, and Apple was like, “Oh, gotta give us 30%?”

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

They were out of control during that time period. But also from a big-picture perspective, that's when I kind of almost burned out.

Andrew Sharp

Yeah.

Ben Thompson

And I was like, “Do I want to keep doing this?” And my realization at the time was actually, no, I still have no problem with all the content production that I do. I enjoy it until I get clipped, and then it gets really annoying. I enjoy it. I enjoy tech. I worry about it. I am tired of regulation and congressional hearings. That's what's burning me out.

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

Nothing will depress you about your job faster than listening to 5 hours of congressmen and congresswomen grandstand while they're grilling Mark Zuckerberg or whoever it might be.

Andrew Sharp

Or poring over 400 pages of EU regulations.

Ben Thompson

Or reading court cases. Actually, I don't mind the court cases. They're more interesting because there are often interesting things in them.

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

And judges are actually usually quite smart, and they weigh stuff out usually very, very well.

Andrew Sharp

Credit to the clerks.

Ben Thompson

Every lawyer that I've interacted with has at some point said to me, “You should've been a lawyer.”

Andrew Sharp

You know, I've had lawyer friends remark the exact same thing when talking to me about your analysis. So I think you're happier in this career.

Ben Thompson

Probably, but I do like—it's not just that I like arguing. I like laying out a case and tying stuff together—

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

…and linking things. And so I appreciate a judge. I appreciate a good opinion. I appreciate a good lawsuit. Anyhow, I'm off track. The whole point was we were stuck in this world that you could see coming.

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

I've talked about it. When I wrote “Aggregation Theory,” 2 or 3 weeks later, I wrote an article saying, “The inevitable outcome here is a bunch of regulation and court cases, and it's not going to work.” And I spent a lot of time talking about why it's going to be a problem applying antitrust law to aggregators and all these bits and pieces. And the big takeaway here is this sort of blasé response, and I kind of felt compelled to write about it yesterday—

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

3. AI Overshadows The App Store

Ben Thompson

But I wasn't really interested in writing about it. It's AI. AI came along. Everyone cares about AI. It's a new thing. It's a growth thing. And obsessing about the App Store is emblematic of stagnation—the stagnation that had taken over in tech. And no one cared about the App—

Andrew Sharp

It was all upside.

Ben Thompson

…when I was writing about the App Store, the reason why people were like, “Why do you care?” is because the App Store was growing like crazy, so everyone was making—

Andrew Sharp

More and more money.

Ben Thompson

Yeah. There is a political analogy here, which is this is why growth is so important.

Andrew Sharp

Mm.

Ben Thompson

This is what the EU gets wrong, by and large, by undervaluing growth. When things are growing and everyone’s getting richer, all the problems that inevitably exist—because the world is messy and there are going to be problems—don’t really matter that much, and no one cares that much.

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

When you feel like things aren’t growing, when the pie’s not getting larger and you’re just fighting about—

Andrew Sharp

And it’s all fixed.

Ben Thompson

…how to slice it up—

Andrew Sharp

Yeah.

Ben Thompson

Then it becomes this very overwhelming, all-encompassing thing. The App Store was this world of people feeling like nothing’s happening, so let’s slice up the pie differently. And quite literally, this is the other thing with the App Store that has always bothered me in some respects. The part that’s never bothered me is different from the part that bothers big companies.

Andrew Sharp

Okay.

Ben Thompson

If you’re Epic and Tim Sweeney and you’re making a gazillion dollars on Fortnite, you’re just arguing over who gets a bigger percentage of us selling virtual dances.

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

It’s all ridiculous, right? It’s purely zero marginal cost. It could not be more purely zero marginal cost than unlocking a bit of code—

Andrew Sharp

New clothes.

Ben Thompson

Yeah, exactly, right? Like virtual clothes. So who cares between Apple and Epic who’s getting more? Epic, in general, I appreciate Tim Sweeney fighting the fight. Philosophically, I have a problem with the App Store, but at the end of the day, I’m not that sympathetic to Epic, the multibillion-dollar corporation or whatever, fighting over who gets what share of virtual dances.

Andrew Sharp

Right.

Ben Thompson

And now no one cares. I think that’s the bigger point, including me. I just don’t care.

Andrew Sharp

That was my sentiment as well, because you went exactly the direction I wanted to go with this conversation. That’s why my next question on the rundown is: isn’t it amazing how incidental all of this now looks in the shadow of AI? It reminds me of the TikTok issue in the China space, where Ben and I were podcasting until we were blue in the face over the fate of TikTok in the United States of America. Had I been writing a couple of years ago on Sharp Tech, I’m sure I would have written several 3,000- or 4,000-word pieces passionately exploring that issue and why TikTok is a problem, this, that, and the other thing.

Ben Thompson

Sharp Text is one of the hottest websites in America.

Andrew Sharp

That’s right.

Ben Thompson

Yes.

Andrew Sharp

Growing very fast.

Of course, I still hate the way the Trump administration has handled the TikTok issue over the last year or two, but alongside everything else that is changing in the world—the battle for resources and choke points and trade and whatnot—I don’t want to say “Who cares?” but I would struggle to muster the same passion for the TikTok controversy that existed three or four years ago.

Ben Thompson

Well, the question is, though, does it actually matter more than ever? Take something like AI data centers.

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

Are we sure China doesn’t have its thumb on the scale on TikTok to be pushing a lot of content to stop them building out certain data centers?

Andrew Sharp

Sure.

Ben Thompson

It’s a reasonable concern. China would be derelict in its duty if it weren’t doing that.

Exactly. By the way, we’ll come back to the App Store in a moment, but if anything, the TikTok issue is actually the biggest issue facing tech right now.

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

But to your point, people don’t care that much. I mean, App Store, AI—is that a similar thing? The actually interesting App Store story that was talked about a little earlier in the year, and has kind of disappeared, is Apple still having all these constraints on you building your own apps.

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

And people are doing it. You have Replit or other services where you make your apps.

Andrew Sharp

What are the constraints imposed?

Ben Thompson

There was a whole thing for months: Apple wasn’t letting these apps update themselves because it wanted them to strip out this functionality and even be able to run other apps. And so there are things that are kind of unclear. It’s clear that no one wants to really talk about this, in part because everyone’s scared of Apple and they want Apple to enable these sorts of things. But why can’t people make their own iPhone apps, launch them, and run them?

Andrew Sharp

Right.

Ben Thompson

And there are legitimate security concerns. I’m not denying that. Apple also has great security infrastructure on the iPhone relative to PCs. I’m not saying it’s perfect, but the whole sandbox infrastructure was built from day 1 so that apps are fully isolated from each other. But Apple wants everything to go through the App Store because they want a cut of everything.

Andrew Sharp

Mm.

Ben Thompson

They don’t want you to be able to just write a bunch of your own little apps on there. And, by the way, Shortcuts are a great AI use case. Completely inscrutable for most people to actually build shortcuts, but much easier if AI does it for you or helps you through it.

Andrew Sharp

When you say Shortcuts, you’re talking about Action Button shortcuts, right?

Ben Thompson

Well, there’s the Shortcuts app on your iPhone that’s actually pretty powerful and lets you build different sorts of things. Yeah, I used it. I made my Action Button. It just brings up a prompt, or I just say, “Air mattress.”

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

And that just pops up: basement, storage room, shelf 3.

Andrew Sharp

It gets you what you need. There you go.

Ben Thompson

That’s for Sarab [?], our Florida inventory app reference.

Andrew Sharp

Exactly.

Andrew Sharp

Thank you for the update. Absolutely.

But yeah, Apple is choking off something of the future right there. But because it’s not pressing, because everyone feels like there’s opportunity, because there’s growth, it’s not really rising to a pressing concern.

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

I guess maybe the world’s fairest thing is the opposite. If everything feels like it’s going crazy, then it’s hard to get stuck on little things, but the overall concept is probably the same.

Andrew Sharp

Right. There are a lot of changes and upheaval, and opportunity, at least as far as tech is concerned. I thought, related to all this, your point on Germany’s 4-year investigation was pretty interesting, because the changes to ATT in Germany are the byproduct of a 4-year investigation from the competition authority.

Ben Thompson

Right. So this thing came up. ATT, as I’ve argued for years, is hilariously anti-competitive, and anti-competitive in a very classic sense. This is not a difficult case to make, unlike the aggregator cases.

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

Apple imposed these rules on everyone else and applied different rules to itself—

Andrew Sharp

And didn’t follow them.

Ben Thompson

And it was competing in the exact same space, right?

Andrew Sharp

Right.

Ben Thompson

And they’re putting in all these scare tactics. The prompt that comes up if you don’t agree to let them track you is very scary.

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

No one’s ever going to click that if they don’t know it.

Andrew Sharp

I do every time out of spite for Apple.

Ben Thompson

I also want a better experience.

Andrew Sharp

Targeted ads. Sure.

Ben Thompson

But also, on principle, I click it. Yes. But then Apple’s is not like that. Apple’s is like, “Oh, we want to give you a better experience. We want to do all these sorts of things.” It’s absurd that it’s asking to do the exact same thing, for all intents and purposes.

Andrew Sharp

Yep.

Ben Thompson

And so everyone is obsessed with limiting the big tech companies. Meanwhile, this tech company is blatantly violating existing antitrust law, as far as I understand it.

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

And they’re changing the rules, right? A lot of Apple stuff is not actually a violation because it’s been on the tin all along that you can’t do certain things, and that’s part of, in U.S. antitrust law, if you’re honest all along, you’re going to do what you want.

Andrew Sharp

Right.

Ben Thompson

Google’s problem with the Epic case was that they did change the rules. If you change the rules after the fact, that’s a big problem.

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

Apple, in this case, was changing the rules after the fact, favoring itself. To me, it was super obvious. And so when I heard about the German regulator requiring Apple to change its wording—to use the same wording for everyone—I just think it’s a great result. I’m not completely anti-regulation.

Andrew Sharp

Yeah.

Ben Thompson

This is a good outcome, and I'm like, “Oh, I wrote about this. I need to put a link here. I already described how anticompetitive this was in an article.”

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

No one uses site search more than me. I find this article, “Data and Definitions.” I read the article, and the opening of the article is, “The German regulator is going to look into this particular case.” And I'm like, “Oh, it's the exact same case.”

Andrew Sharp

Yeah.

Ben Thompson

I didn't even realize it was the same case. I'm like, “Oh, it's been 4 years.” And so here's the deal.

Andrew Sharp

Okay.

Ben Thompson

This is a good outcome. They were thorough, and I think the right thing is happening.

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

And I understand the frustration of the regulator, the app developer, and the analyst that it took 4 years to get here. I completely get that.

Andrew Sharp

Because in that 4-year time, the advertising ecosystem has already been remade to some extent.

Ben Thompson

I tied this to the AI Act, where I think a motivation for the EU's AI Act—which was passed a few years ago and now is driving this whole watermarking discussion—is that the EU has relatively little going on in AI. It's also very limiting in terms of what it does. Mistral's big play now is to basically be a data center operator for Chinese models.

Andrew Sharp

Great.

Ben Thompson

Yeah, congratulations. The impetus to pass that was, “We passed the DMA too late.”

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

We didn't address tech's issues until well after the fact. And I can imagine an EU fan pointing at this German case and saying, “Look, it's 2026. They didn't even start investigating until 2022, and everyone's already worked around ATT and blah, blah, blah.”

Andrew Sharp

There've been structural shifts as a result of ATT.

Ben Thompson

Yeah. All that is totally fair and correct, and I think it's worth acknowledging that.

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

But the App Store was a good thing. Apple went too far, in my opinion, but let's not forget that they did create an entire ecosystem. They did lay the foundation for the creation of trillions of dollars' worth of value, if you consider the big, big tech companies.

Andrew Sharp

Meta. Sure. Yeah.

Ben Thompson

The consumer surplus is astronomical. All these great things are part and parcel of the bad things.

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

And if you worry about the bad things too early, it actually ends up not mattering because the good things don't happen. And you tie this back to the concept of the overall political economy. When things are growing, a lot of issues just aren't that big of a deal, and it's a lot easier to solve problems.

Andrew Sharp

Yeah.

Ben Thompson

And this is something I thought was just worth acknowledging. Look, this took forever.

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

I get why the EU wanted to be early on AI, but let's not forget this took forever in part because the App Store was and is awesome.

Andrew Sharp

Mm-hmm.

Ben Thompson

And it delivered astronomical growth and astronomical consumer surplus all over the world. I would rather be in a world where we got all this upside with a bit of Apple being a bad actor on the back end and maybe treating that too late, rather than get obsessed with the back end and Apple acting badly—

Andrew Sharp

Throttling the growth engine. Yeah.

Ben Thompson

—and miss out on the front end. And, by the way, in that case, you never even got to the back end, so you regulated nothing.

Andrew Sharp

Yeah. When I read your post on Wednesday, it was a very useful insight at the end of an otherwise boring update from you on Wednesday. But I do think it's a healthy acknowledgment of the tension that underlies the regulation questions. With AI specifically, I have always said I'm not as anti-regulation, but I think it's changing so quickly that it's almost guaranteed we will get more wrong than right if we try to regulate it before we know exactly how any of this is used and how it will work in practice. All right, and that is the end of the free preview. If you'd like to hear more from Ben and I, there are links to subscribe in the show notes, or you can also go to sharptech.fm. Either option will get you access to a personalized feed that has all the shows we do every week, plus lots more great content from Stratechery and the Stratechery Plus bundle. Check it out, and if you've got feedback, please email us at email@sharptech.fm.