Why AI Is Giving Young People an Unprecedented Advantage

This has to be the best time in human history to be young. It’s like the time of Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, or someone like that. But our problem is that everything we have created for your education was built for a world that will soon cease to exist.

Marc and I just commissioned a report on Generation Z, and one of the findings was that this is the generation with the most dispersion and fragmentation in everything. For young people who don’t have a billion-dollar idea, it’s important not to stop at a million-dollar idea, but instead to look further. We are building a new school for the era of artificial intelligence, and that means rethinking everything. Let’s strive for all this and get results.

Imagine HGA in 5 years. What do you hope we will achieve? How will you determine if we have succeeded?

Well, Ben and Gagan, we have an important announcement today.

Yes. We’re announcing the creation of the Horowitz and Gagan Academy.

1. Introducing Horowitz Andreessen Academy

Yes, that’s right. We’re very excited about it. We’re extremely happy.

So, let’s delve into the history of how it came about and talk about what it is. Ben, since I joined a16z a year and a half ago, we’ve been working to make this happen. We found the perfect co-CEO and co-founder in Gagan, but you had been thinking about this at a16z years before. So, tell us what made us want to do this.

We approached this from a few different directions. The first thing we noticed is that, for young people, college is a very good fit if you want to become a scientist, a professor, or something like that. But it’s a strange proposition if you just want to get a job or have an idea to start a company. It’s a very large financial investment and a very large time investment, and most of what happens in college is unrelated to that.

Of course, it’s important to be a well-rounded individual, but if you ask an 18-year-old why they’re going to college, it’s usually to find a job. And it doesn’t always work. It was one of those things where we thought, “We have a lot of openings. Maybe we could help with that.”

From our side, from a recruiting perspective, I think colleges have changed a lot in the last 4 or 5 years in terms of what kind of students they’re looking for and what kind of skills they have. In our world, the skills needed change so quickly that it’s very difficult for such a large system to keep up.

We still think college is great for most young people, but there’s a certain type of student who wants to build something and already knows they want to go into technology, particularly now. We have access to all the jobs. We know exactly what you need to learn, and we know exactly what skills you need to have. So we thought, “Listen, this would be a great addition to what we offer.”

And, you know, we’ve been thinking about this ourselves for over 10 years. You have your many businesses that you co-founded—Udemy and, of course, Maven lately. We were looking for the right CEO, and in the process it became clear that, first, Gagan had been thinking about this forever, and second, he was one of the most impressive entrepreneurs in this space in the last decade. Is there anything else you’d like to add about this search?

It was a situation where you have an idea, you meet someone, and they say, “You know, I’ve had this idea for a lot longer than you have.” And not only that, I had spent a lot of time trying to make it happen, but without the enormous resources that you have—investments in 1,600 companies, a large in-house staff, and so on.

If you combine these things, there’s the potential to create something really special.

Yes. I think also that, as a firm, we’ve supported a lot of projects in this area. There are many people who have tried to do something in this area but have not achieved anything truly significant. There have been some interesting experiments and some interesting results, but nothing has really produced a breakthrough result.

I’m curious why you guys think this is happening.

I’m going to suggest that they’re focusing too narrowly. College is, of course, a comprehensive package. It’s a collection of dozens of things, including sports leagues and school management.

You don’t need to do the whole package, but you need to ensure that you’re providing not just training for the job, but also status, a diploma, and a brand. It should indicate that you studied here, so I want to hire you. I want to work with you. And it should be fun, too. It has to be something people actually want to do.

I think too many players are focusing either just on training or on some other hybrid, and they’re not creating the same package that represents a truly competitive value proposition.

I think we start a little more narrowly, and then we reach perfection in it. The main idea is that it’s for people who want to build something, do something, and have an impact on the world beyond what I’ve already mentioned.

To do that, whether it’s in technology, music, or any other field, you want to learn how to do it, not just learn the theory about it. If you’re thinking about something like musicology or art history, that’s great, but we’re not going to do that. We’ll do something more like, “Oh, you want to study music? Let’s write some songs. Let’s figure out the process and make it happen.”

The same goes for technology: “Oh, you want to be a technologist? Let’s learn how to build a system.” I think it ends up being completely different.

Another reason why now is actually the right time to do this is that, if you look at the university system, it started as a religious institution with the Jesuits and so on. Then came the Industrial Revolution, and suddenly everyone needed a higher level of learning, the ability to be literate, and so on.

The university system in the United States exploded. Universities became much bigger, there were many more of them, and so on. This was truly necessary to prepare the population to enter the corporate world. It’s hard for people to understand now, but in 1700, the corporate world didn’t exist. There was a farming world, and then suddenly these companies appeared. To exist in that environment, you had to be able to read, write, count, and so on.

Things have changed a lot in terms of education in this country, which has been a huge advantage. To a large extent, the America that we have was built because of our great universities. But now we’re on the cusp of an AI revolution that we estimate will be as transformative for jobs, the way work is done, and the types of jobs available as the Industrial Revolution was for the agrarian society that existed before.

The idea that preparing for the Industrial Revolution would be ideal for the AI revolution is probably false. There must be someone who will pave this path. How, for example, do you prepare someone for the new world?

There are a lot of things that are different. We also have all these technologies. Instead of being in lectures for 5 or 8 hours a day, depending on the curriculum, it might be better to have more condensed learning, more time with tools, and more time to learn at your own pace with AI.

On top of that, there should be more structured social interaction. I don’t mean social events in the style of, “Let’s get drunk and go for a walk,” although perhaps that will happen. I mean more structured social activities, because we’ll have time for them—we won’t be sitting in a classroom listening to lectures as much. All these new ideas can now be implemented, and the time is right because, for today’s youth, this is the world in which they’ll have to live.

Yes, I completely agree. We are building a new school for the AI era, which means we’re developing everything from scratch. Other initiatives are often not large enough to truly provide an experience comparable to a university one. Of course, this isn’t a college, and it doesn’t issue diplomas. But to give high school students a college-like experience, you need interpersonal social dynamics.

It should be a residential program in San Francisco. You need to make sure that the institution has connections with employers who hire the best professionals. There’s a certain set of requirements that you have to meet, and there are probably only 2 or 3 people who have even tried to implement something this complex in the last 50 years.

The other thing that I think those companies or initiatives missed is the classic startup truth: What do you do when you launch a startup? You need a very specific customer who has a burning desire to get your product.

Ben, when we first met, I didn’t see many of these people. But in the last 6 months, as you know, I’ve spent all my time with young creators, and there’s a whole generation of young people who are eager to create new things. That’s one of the main ingredients of this academy: they exist, we’re building it for them, and I think that’s what sets us apart from other projects. We have a very clear demand.

Moreover, this demand is promising. This isn’t demand from, say, the far right or the far left, which is perceived ambiguously. These are people who will employ thousands or hundreds of thousands of others in the future. They’ll eventually raise a billion dollars for their companies. These are the people who need our product right now, and that’s what, in my opinion, is truly fascinating.

Yes. Students will have the opportunity to work in the real world because, when I was in college, it was so disconnected from the real world. I was interested in technology, but I only read about it. Here, you’ll have access to work at internet companies like Databricks, NVIDIA, Stripe, and many others.

And you will immerse yourself in a kind of a16z cinematic universe, which is not only economically and career-oriented and deeply integrated into real work, but also allows you to see people doing real, interesting things and captures the spirit of Silicon Valley. Ben, let's talk about how you would plan your development, education, or training if you were 18 today. What is life like for 18-year-olds today? What do you think is worth rejoicing about, and what is worth fearing?

Yes, I would be thrilled if I were 18. I think it's one of the best times in history for 18-year-olds, and it's a shame that current employment systems make people so nervous about their future. But if you look deeper, this is the time of Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, or someone like that. You are entering a world that only you will understand. It's going to be much harder for people like me to understand this world than it is for you—to understand what's possible, what you can do, and so on.

So you can become more capable at a very young age than people with 30–40 years of experience. And this is simply incredible, because usually you have to climb the career ladder and spend 20 years building status and authority. Now you can immediately use new tools to solve almost any problem.

And the most interesting thing is that people ask, “What should we do?” Are we done with our problems? It seems we have plenty of them. Everything I read about is problems. Problems everywhere. So now you can go out and start solving them directly, either yourself as a leader or as part of a team. For me, that's what's really fascinating, and I think that's kind of funny.

I've heard a lot about the transition during the Industrial Revolution because my grandfather's father once took his family out of Russia because they were going to kill all the Jews there, so they had to flee. It was a period of pogroms, and when he got here, he was basically a slave. He worked in a garment factory and slept under the sewing machine because he worked there for so many hours. It was like he lived in an office under a sewing machine. He would come home on weekends and so on, and he earned very little money. It was a very, very difficult life for him.

But my grandfather was able to get an education at CCNY, became a teacher, and had a much better life, although it was still not as good as my father's. My father was the next generation after him. And I think when we look back, the youth of today will look at us and their parents as the people who slept under sewing machines, and that will seem pretty pathetic compared to what will be possible in the future.

So I think this is a very, very exciting time. But you want to be on the right side of history and look to the future. You don't want to be stuck in the past. I think the past will disappear very quickly, much faster than we're used to.

2. Why Experience Still Matters When It's So Easy to Build

Tell me about how, even though it's so easy to build now, you still want to have the experience, the relationships, and the connections—to spend some time at some of these iconic companies, right? Because when you're a kid, you might think, “Oh, I want to launch a dating app or a pizza delivery service.” But if you work at, say, Databricks, as an example, tell us a little bit about that.

If you're young and you see something like that, it makes you say, “Oh my God, I think I'm the only one who really understands this,” and it makes you want to start a company. This is Mark Zuckerberg. This is such an incredible opportunity, but at the same time, it's rare. And I think most young people, or most people in general, would like to understand that.

By the way, all of Zuck's Harvard roommates who didn't join him on Facebook really regretted it, because he invited them all to work with him, but some refused and are now kicking themselves.

That would be so exciting.

So I think there's a great opportunity to join people who have already gone through a similar path, or to join a company that has already reached a certain level, if you want to learn and develop skills. Or maybe one of your classmates is doing something really interesting, like it was with Facebook at one time.

I think there are a lot of possibilities, depending on how powerful your ideas are at that moment, and sometimes they're not that powerful. I didn't have any great ideas when I was 18, so it doesn't happen that often. It took me a while to learn. I guess I'm not as fast as others.

But if you get in, it was a great blessing for me to get into Silicon Graphics, which was full of innovation. I saw how it worked and how you could really change things, and that laid the foundation for my whole career.

We always talk about creative skills, but also about people skills. You have written several books about this, and you talk about it constantly within the company. Did you know this when you were 18 or in college? How do you learn communication skills? How should we teach this to our students?

I think the main thing is to be around people. People often talk about how the millennial generation, in particular, has an epidemic of loneliness because they're so immersed in their screens and everything. I think one of the things that AI has the potential to do is take us away from our screens.

We're not that far from a world where I'll be talking to my AI and it will do the work of figuring out this damn machine. It will free me up for real human interaction, where there will be immense value in getting to know your colleagues, motivating them, getting the best out of one another, doing something bigger than ourselves, moving the future forward, and making the world a better place.

College, by the way, has been great at this for years. You meet someone and say, “Oh, you're from Nebraska? I never knew anyone from Nebraska. What's that like? Is it just cornfields and all that? What's going on there?” You start to get to know people.

Probably one of the skills that I lack the most, and that I try to instill in people in the firm, is to simply start with the person right in front of you. Instead of just saying to someone, “Hi, Erik, how are you?” ask, “Where did you grow up? Where are you from?” One of your parents is from here, and the other is from there. That's actually really interesting. How was it? How did they get along? And so on. Then you begin to understand people.

This opportunity in a business context is not so obvious if you haven't done it, but you always do it when you get together with a group of peers. That's the first thing you ask them. You want to know: Do you get along with your parents? Do you hate your parents? Something along those lines.

Yeah, I think that's probably one of the most important things if we want students to develop communication skills.

Mhm. And one of the basic principles of developing such a skill is osmosis. You need to immerse the student in a social environment where people are interacting. In particular, I think it's a challenge when you go to college and only interact with your peers. Eventually, you might have a friend who is a year or two older or younger than you.

One of the things that I think the academy will do is create deep social connections between you. We will also try to put you, especially in the office, alongside other companies, individuals, projects, cooperatives, and interns from the so-called adult world, so that you have no other choice. For example, if you're trying to create a new robot and the only way to do it is to get a specific chip, but you don't know how to write a cold email, you'll have to learn, right? And there will be people around you who are experts in this matter. They'll say, “Oh, you should do this and that,” and so on.

I believe that the combination of a Silicon Valley atmosphere, a supportive circle of like-minded people, and project-based learning will accelerate skill development far more than simply listening to a lecture on negotiations. After all, that's not how skills are developed. You develop skills when you do something you truly care about and need to get others involved.

Yes, 100%. Mark and I just commissioned this study on Generation Z, and one of the findings was that this is the generation with the highest variability and fragmentation across all areas. Any subculture or phenomenon manifests itself in the most extreme way among them.

For example, when we were in college, it was rare to meet an 18-year-old who was already building startups, immersed in the startup world, and obsessed with it. Now there are so many of them, and we are going to involve them.

But going back to your point about how important it is who surrounds you, finding “your” people—those who build, who are resilient and entrepreneurial—is more difficult than ever because of this high variability. To gather them all in one place is simply colossal.

Yes, we are very excited. I was amazed by the talented people we were able to meet. Growing up, I didn't know anyone who was into entrepreneurship, and I started my first business when I was 13.

So the idea is to gather at least 50 students in the first batch of fellows—50 students who are real creators. These will be different kinds of creators. I want to make it clear that this is a broad definition of the word “creator,” but they will all be in one place to get to know one another and spend a lot of time exchanging ideas. I am very excited about this.

3. Why California: The Cultural & Intellectual Bastion

Let’s talk about the importance of this happening in California and in the greater Bay Area. Ben, you grew up in Berkeley.

In the Socialist Republic.

Yes, that’s right. At the time, it was, like, 10,000 miles from Silicon Valley, although it actually was a half-hour drive. I find that very interesting because you grew up in California, so you know that it’s not just a technical bastion, but also a cultural and intellectual bastion.

We’re focused on the creation element a lot, but people say that college is not just about building a career; it’s about gaining knowledge and becoming a better person. Tell me why California and San Francisco in particular are such important places for this. What is the opportunity here?

I think the main thing is that this is where most of the big companies in America are started, and America is one of 2 places in the world where a huge number of them are started. Everyone who has done it and knows how to do it, and all the people who have worked in places like this, the vast majority of them are right here in California.

If you want to learn this or work with people who do this, this is just the most obvious place to do it. I went to college in New York, and most of the people who graduated went into the financial sector. It was the main employer, the main recruiter there, and so on.

For a program like this, we’re connected to a lot of companies, but probably over 80% of them are right here in this area. It’s just very, very convenient—you come here, you explore the area, and you know what? You can start your career right here.

Yes. San Francisco is your campus, right?

A campus is not just the walls of a school; it’s the entire city. I think that’s very important. I would also add that if San Francisco were a campus, the cultural values of San Francisco—which many people don’t talk about—would be a major part of it.

San Francisco is one of those places that embraces failure. If things don’t work out, we’ll still fund your next company. Silicon Valley is one of those places where the positive-sum principle works. Everyone believes that if I help someone, I don’t necessarily get anything in return. I will pass on the good, and I know that it will come back to me, because this is the culture we live in.

This is a culture of extremely high trust. I think this will create a very, very calm, safe, and positive environment for students, which is also extremely ambitious. That’s a rare combination. It’s very hard to achieve, and I think Silicon Valley, and especially San Francisco, have really figured it out.

Another way to put it is this: if you want to have a stake in the future, or help define it, discuss it, or build it, a lot of it is happening in San Francisco—whether it’s the future of AI, the future of money, or the future of biotechnology. So many of these technologies, and the discussions around them, are discussed here or are born here and then spread further. They’re being discussed in the courts here.

4. Why Make Academy a Separate Company

Yes, but metaphorically and literally. Ben, tell us about the decision to make this a separate company. We’ve long debated why the a16z Academy should be both separate and connected at the same time. We left the brand the same, and it should also be a strong brand that is a signal to students.

Tell us a little bit about this decision and how you think it will interact with the firm in general.

I think the thing that the firm brings that is extremely unique is our comprehensive connection to virtually every opportunity in the technology space. By the way, we’re working to make these partnerships clearly understood by academy graduates. If you complete this program and show good results, many new opportunities will open up for you. I think that was our real strength.

But that’s a completely separate idea. For example, we’re an investment company. This is not an investment project. This is an investment in the future of the country, but this is an academy, and we are not an academy. So we needed it to exist separately and have a life of its own.

Also, I don’t think this idea is limited to technology. As I said, I think it’s very interesting for music. It could be interesting for medicine. It can be interesting for many fields, because every profession is undergoing significant changes.

We wanted the project to be able to grow and develop once we got it up and running. It didn’t make sense to just make it part of our firm. This would greatly limit its ambitions, and we are not used to limiting our ambitions.

5. Why It Had to Be For-Profit: Making the Student the Customer

I completely agree. Tell us why it had to be a commercial organization. In other words, we already said that the customer had to be a student. Currently, some institutions are trying to please too many customers, and this leads to a dilution of quality.

If you’re young, it brings us back to our previous conversation. This is the best time in human history to be young. But our problem is that everything we have created for your education was designed for a world that will soon disappear.

Someone has to provide the best service for this customer, and I hope that by demonstrating and building this model, we won’t be the only ones to have it. This is not the kind of idea where we say, “Okay, we’ll create a monopoly on this.” On the contrary: please copy us. Please, Harvard, copy us. Please copy us all.

Someone has to do innovative work for a breakthrough that will change the world for every young person in this country, and perhaps beyond. So here’s the idea: we’re not concerned with serving alumni, donors, or parents, because it’s all about the youth and what they need and what will provide them with the best life. This simplifies the equation considerably.

The pursuit of profit forces us to work for the customer. Our job ultimately is to make sure that the young people who attend this institution achieve great success, because that builds the brand and creates the flywheel that allows us to stay in business. I think it’s very unique to education that we have this alignment of incentives. That’s actually one of the main principles of the academy.

6. Curiosity as the Core: From Push to Pull Learning

Likewise, one of the main principles of the academy is curiosity. There’s this quote: “Education is not filling a bucket; it’s lighting a fire.”

We’re moving from an imposition model, with all these assessments and cramming, to an engagement model, where what matters is what you’re naturally interested in and what you can create by developing in that direction. It’s not always obvious where that will lead, as we talked about with Steve Jobs’ interest in calligraphy. It didn’t seem like something that would lead to anything significant, but it actually led to a lot.

Also, Ben, you’ve always been interested in rap music.

Yes.

And you developed your interest at a very young age.

Yes, exactly.

Maybe it wasn’t obvious at the time what it would lead to, but it made you a lot more authentic and interesting as a businessman. It certainly made your life better and made you a better storyteller, which is a key part of my job.

So it’s really important in the context of academia and what we’re trying to do: let’s learn everything, but then let’s get some result from this.

We don’t want to focus on whether you’ve memorized the answers to the questions, because we have tools that do a great job of that. We want to focus on whether you created something interesting.

Funny thing is, I was talking to Dan Boneh, a distinguished professor of computer science at Stanford and an expert in cryptography. His view on AI is that you have 2 paths. You can ban it, although, by the way, that won’t work. Or you can make tasks so complex that they cannot be solved without AI.

I think his approach is simply wonderful, because he sees students solving problems that no one else could solve before—problems that even I couldn’t solve myself. But that’s what made it possible, right? So it’s worth changing the focus to the question: “What exactly can you solve with these tools?” What can you do that will be a real breakthrough?

Now everyone has a chance to make a breakthrough. That’s incredibly exciting, because then you become the main character, not an NPC. That’s what the academy is all about: “Hey, do you want to be the main character?” If you want to be the main character, we will help you with that. If you want to be a cog in the system, this is not the best place for you, although there are many other places that will help you with that.

I think it’s important that the creator’s mindset be applied even to industries that aren’t directly related to AI or programming. Take calligraphy, for example. It’s one thing to say, “Why don’t you learn calligraphy and answer a test question about how to draw beautiful letters?” It’s another thing to say, “Why don’t you learn calligraphy well enough to write an Islamic poem that will be well presented in academia?”

For every activity that you mentioned earlier, Ben, like music—for every knowledge drive our students have—we want to shift the focus to: “How can you put this into practice?” Create a challenge, a project, anything interesting and exciting that will allow you to move toward your goal.

I think that’s the approach that will allow them to learn skills that are not related to work, like gardening or learning to kitesurf—whatever it is—but it will allow them to do it in a way that they really learn that skill. It’s very, very difficult to learn most skills if all you do is cram for a test.

7. People Skills: The Underrated Advantage in the AI Era

When it comes to interpersonal skills, there are a few different dimensions here, right? Some people make the analogy that founders are like movie directors: you need to write a script, get all the actors involved, and then make it happen. Others compare it to the job of a night promoter: you need to get people excited, get them involved, sell the idea, negotiate, and so on.

At the same time, there are people who are charismatic but burn out quickly. You often talk about the inner game, about managing your own psychology, because you have worked with many very unique people. So how does a child learn this? What would you say to that?

Well, I think that's again a hard thing to teach in a classroom, right? Here's what I always tell CEOs: A lot of them read my book, so I don't want to overstate it, but this book doesn't teach you how to be a CEO in the sense that you can read all the books about football, but when you go out on the field in an NFL game as a quarterback, no book is going to teach you how to deal with a 300-pound monster running at you while you're trying to figure out who to throw the ball to.

You have to do it in practice to learn. I believe that you need to go through this to master the material. A lot of what we learn in economics comes down to the question: Can you put together a team? Can you do it? This is less risky. It will be more like training than the game itself, but that's how you learn it.

You are mastering these decision-making skills to some extent. Do you know what it costs you to hesitate when making a decision? For example, what does it mean to not resolve a conflict? What are the consequences of this? You can't just read about it.

Yes, I mean, I can tell you about it, but until you experience that awful feeling, you don't really learn it at the level necessary to run a company or something like that.

8. What's Actually Worth Working On When You're 18 Today

Plus, because the tools are so good now and our resources are so great, it's easier than ever to get something done when you know exactly what you want to do. So the limitation is often what is worth working on. If you were 18 today, with so many different compromises, how would you think about it?

Well, I think a lot of it comes down to what you're interested in, what your skills fit, and what problem you know and can solve. There are so many diseases that are very devastating. There are all kinds of challenges related to the environment. There are real challenges to the integrity of our electoral system, and so on.

Is there a technological answer to this? Or is there simply a systemic response? Depending on what the problem is, that makes you say, “Damn it, we have to fix this.”

By the way, what always happens to entrepreneurs is like a scientific discovery. You are trying to find a cure for pancreatic cancer, but along the way you find out that we can solve this other thing that's also important because we discovered something there.

Most scientific discoveries and entrepreneurial ideas turn out to be somewhat accidental. You're going to solve a complex problem, and you find another complex problem that's getting in the way of solving the first one, and it ends up being the same idea.

That's why I think it's critically important for young people who don't have a billion-dollar idea to not settle for a million-dollar idea, but instead to look further. A lot of young people haven't seen anything beyond teenage life, and one of the main values of the academy is that we expose you to a much broader spectrum of what's going on in the real world.

An attempt to solve a very complex problem, even an unsuccessful one, has value precisely in the experience gained. People say, “Oh, Silicon Valley welcomes failure.” Well, not just any failures. Those failures through which you learn an incredible amount and discover something for yourself.

After trying to solve a difficult problem and failing, you now know why that problem is so difficult to solve. So what are the subtasks? What are the related problems? Can you solve at least one of them? It is this knowledge gained through failure that we value here. This is the same thing we value in academia: What have you learned through practice?

9. Five Years From Now: What Success Looks Like for Academy

Imagine H Academy in 5 years. What do you think we should achieve? How will you know if we are successful? Tell us about your vision.

Well, I think in 5 years there are many things that will indicate success. First, our graduates have great careers that they love and have built interesting companies. They may not have achieved much success during this time, depending on what you mean by that. Also, we as an academy have understood what really works.

Will we be able to scale this to engage more diverse students? Maybe not just those who are interested in technology, but also those who are interested in other things, to get people who can solve all the world's problems or become incredible creators.

The creative world is also changing. Today, when I talk to my artist friends, they say, “This is amazing, because I have an idea or a feeling that I want to convey, and now I can do it in any medium. I am no longer limited to just my field.”

I can create a full-length feature film. I can make a movie. I can write a song. I can write music for a film. Now anything is possible, and I think it's just a great time to implement your ideas and spread them in any format. We want to facilitate that in all directions, not just within our traditional boundaries.

It will be incredible to build this future with you both and all the students who will join us. Very excited.

Very excited.

Yes, very excited. Thank you.