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Sohn Conference Foundation · · 13 分钟

John Yetimoglu 在 Sohn 2025 推介 Sea Ltd

John Yetimoglu

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TL;DR
  • John Yetimoglu 推介的是 Sea Limited(SE),将其定义为“东南亚的 Amazon + 全球最受欢迎的游戏 + 一家金融科技公司”,其中 Shopee 正在加速,Garena 重新加速,SeaMoney 是集团增速最快的业务。 Shopee GMV 约1200亿美元,市场份额55%;Garena 是一家 EBITDA 年化规模约15亿美元的业务;SeaMoney 预计今年实现10亿美元 EBITDA。
  • 护城河来自10美元客单价世界中的自营物流。 竞争对手依赖 J&T Express 等3PL,单票成本75美分、每单 EBIT 约7美分且固定成本高;Shopee Express 的服务成本更低——「同一件商品会在多个平台销售,但 Shopee 永远会是最低价」。随着 J&T 失去订单量、不得不提价以维持 ROE,差距进一步扩大;所有参与者同时改善单位经济性后,行业整体 take rate 都有所上升。
  • 广告是隐藏的利润率杠杆:重做后的广告平台“爆发式增长”,目前约占 GMV 的2%;Yetimoglu 认为长期可达到5%,而 Pinduoduo、JD、Alibaba 等同规模同行的上限约为7%——这是一个毛利率50%的业务。 在巴西,Shopee 的 GMV 已从2023年 Mercado Libre 的三分之一增长至超过40%;用户数和网页流量则几年前就已超过 Meli。
  • 短期游戏催化剂包括 Free Fire 在印度重启,预注册用户约1亿,高于7000万;以及类似 GTA 的衍生游戏 Free City 在阿根廷“表现出色”的上线。 Free Fire 拥有6亿+用户,是“全球最大的手机游戏”。
  • 管理层利益绑定的依据是:2022年,管理层取消了自己的全部现金薪酬,并注销了3000万份已完全归属、价值30亿美元的 RSUs,将其重组为行权价120美元的 PSUs。 「我从未见过美国的管理团队做出这样的事,更不用说亚洲了。」内部人士及管理层合计持股超过40%,其中 Tencent 持股17%;Forrest Li 持有公司接近20%的股份和60%的投票权。
  • 他的判断是:未来6–12个月上涨30%至200美元,以达到可比公司估值倍数;EBITDA 则将在3–5年内从今年的40亿美元增长至125亿美元——对应25% CAGR 的“稳健复利增长者”和3倍以上回报。 他的原话是:「我真希望自己一周前就推介了这家公司。股价只是在不断上涨。」
摘要 · 为研究而整理的核心内容

1. 3个品类领导者,共享一条底层经济主线

  • Yetimoglu 的框架是:Sea 每天触达约8.5亿人——东南亚6亿+、巴西2亿+——覆盖3个历史上增速最快的业务领域:过去10年 Shopee GMV 以100%的速度复合增长,Free Fire 用户数 CAGR 达40%,而 SeaMoney 目前增速最快,预计今年实现10亿美元 EBITDA。
  • 需求背景是年轻中产阶层收入持续上升、电商渗透率仍处于早期阶段,以及未来5–10年中十几%的终端市场 CAGR;其中 Shopee 正在推动整体市场增长。

2. 关税无论如何都会让东南亚受益

  • 他的地缘政治加分项是:供应链迁出中国将惠及这些经济体,「即使美国和中国最终达成贸易协议,某种程度上也无关紧要」——跨国企业「别无选择,只能进行对冲」。他以 Trump 第一任期作为判断尺度,并以 Apple 已暗示将 iPhone 产能从中国转移至印度为例。

3. Shopee 的护城河,是10美元订单价值下的物流经济性

  • 问答环节展开了这条关键链条:竞争对手依赖 J&T Express,单票成本75美分、每单 EBIT 约7美分;Shopee Express 以更低成本提供更好的服务质量,商家因此迁回 Shopee Express,而 J&T 为维持 ROE 提价,进一步拉大了差距。持续烧钱的竞争者「无法在价格上竞争」,最终「水就这么漫了出来」——随着所有平台同时改善单位经济性,行业 take rate 普遍上升,而 Shopee 作为规模玩家获得了更多份额。
  • 两个结构性助力也在发挥作用:保护主义政府保护本地 MSME 免受中国出口商冲击;约18个月前上线的直播电商业务超过 TikTok,成为印尼最受欢迎的直播购物平台,「可以说也是整个东南亚最受欢迎的」。
  • 广告是利润弹性来源:目前占 GMV 的2%,目标为5%,同行上限为7%;在50%毛利率下,这将成为重要利润贡献项,并帮助补贴业务其他环节。印尼是最大市场,占 GMV 的29%。

4. Garena 出现拐点,金融科技依托 Shopee 数据完成授信

  • Free Fire 是一款拥有超过6亿用户的长青游戏,在 Yetimoglu 的描述中也是全球最大的手机游戏。针对他所称过去一年「相当大的拐点」,Garena 已将业务多元化至 Arena of Valor、Call of Duty: Mobile、Delta Force 和 Free City,其中部分由 Tencent 联合开发。Free Fire 在印度重启,已有约1亿用户预注册,高于7000万;Free City 在阿根廷上线「表现出色」,预计今年将成为有意义的收入贡献来源。
  • 金融科技的逻辑是:东南亚有一半人口没有银行账户,而美国和中国的比例分别为7%和20%;Shopee 的消费者数据使 Sea 在评估信用资质方面明显优于其他公司。NPL 稳定在1.2%,过去一年还连续改善。

5. 创始人利益绑定与3倍回报的数学

  • 持股结构本身就是投资逻辑:Forrest Li 持有公司接近20%的股份和60%的投票权,Chris Feng 也持有显著股份;管理层在2022年取消现金薪酬,并注销价值30亿美元、已完全归属的 RSUs,将其重组为行权价120美元的 PSUs。
  • 估值路径是:未来6–12个月依靠可比公司估值倍数上涨30%至200美元;随后 EBITDA 在3–5年内从40亿美元增至125亿美元,推动股价以25% CAGR 稳健复利增长,回报超过3倍。预期路径是高增长与市场份额提升持续带来业绩超预期和上调指引,同时单位经济性和利润率逐步改善。
John Yetimoglu

Today I’m presenting Sea Limited, ticker SE. Sea is a Southeast Asian tech conglomerate with 3 dominant category leaders across e-commerce, gaming, and fintech. Shopee, its e-commerce business, is doing a $120 billion GMV run rate with accelerating growth. Its video gaming segment, Garena, is around a $1.5 billion EBITDA run-rate business with reaccelerating growth, and its fintech business, SeaMoney, is growing the fastest among the group and is expected to do $1 billion of EBITDA this year.

You can think about Sea as the Amazon of Southeast Asia, plus the world’s most popular game, plus a fintech business that’s very synergistic with the e-commerce business. All 3 segments have historically been some of the fastest-growing businesses. Shopee grew GMV at a 100% CAGR over the last 10 years. Garena Free Fire, its hit game, grew users at a 40% CAGR over the last 10 years. SeaMoney is the fastest-growing segment within the business and the ecosystem.

1. Sea Serves A Massive Market

Sea is the backbone of the Southeast Asian economy. Its e-commerce and digital financial services segments touch nearly 850 million people’s lives daily: more than 600 million in Southeast Asia and more than 200 million in Brazil. When you think about these countries, think Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Thailand, and the Philippines. Consumer demographics in these regions are some of the most attractive end markets in the world. The middle class is young, with growing incomes, and e-commerce is in the early stages of penetration. We believe the end e-commerce market will grow at a mid-teens CAGR over the next 5 to 10 years, with Shopee driving overall market growth.

Some regional macro trends—GDP growth, inflation, and interest rates—have been pretty stable across Southeast Asia, even relative to the United States. Given that tariffs and geopolitical tensions between the U.S. and China are a front-and-center focus right now, we actually think Southeast Asia and Sea Limited are uniquely positioned to be beneficiaries of supply-chain moves out of China into Southeast Asia. It doesn’t even matter if the U.S. and China end up reaching a trade deal, because large multinational enterprises have no choice but to hedge their supply-chain risks by doing this. If you use Trump’s first term as a barometer, the shift resulted in a major tailwind and boom for the economies of these Southeast Asian nations. Apple, for example, has already indicated recently that it’s going to move its entire iPhone production out of China into India.

2. Shopee Owns Southeast Asian Commerce

I’ll spend a little time talking about each segment. Shopee is the most dominant e-commerce business in Southeast Asia. It has 55% market share and continues to take share quite rapidly. It has a significant logistics advantage in terms of service quality and cost to serve versus other platforms, which predominantly rely on third-party logistics. Shopee is also growing really fast in Brazil and taking market share from Mercado Libre. It was about a third of the size of Mercado Libre in 2023, and now it’s a little more than 40% of Mercado Libre’s size in terms of GMV. It also passed Mercado Libre in total users and web traffic a few years ago. Mercado Libre now just has higher average order values.

The remote, hyper-localized approach, first-party logistics, and network effects have all expanded Sea’s moat. These countries are very protectionist toward their small and medium-sized merchants, or MSMEs, because they’re the backbones of the economy. That makes it difficult for Chinese exporters to come in. Sea is the lowest-cost operator because of its logistics advantages in terms of cost to serve. Average order values are $10 across these regions, so every penny you save on logistics makes a big difference for consumers who have limited wallet share.

Shopee launched its live-shopping business about 18 months ago. Live shopping is the equivalent of QVC online and is wildly popular in Asia. Shopee grew that business to beat out TikTok and become the most popular live-shopping platform in Indonesia, and arguably in Southeast Asia as well. Lastly, there’s advertising. Given its scale—and the fact that e-commerce is a scale game—Sea can pull levers like advertising to subsidize other parts of the business. It revamped its ad platform about a year and a half ago, significantly increased its return on ad spend, and that business exploded. It’s now around 2% of GMV in ad revenue. We think ad revenue will grow to 5% of GMV over time. If you look at marketplaces of similar scale, like Pinduoduo, JD.com, and Alibaba, they typically max out at 7%. This is a 50% margin business, so it’s a pretty big contributor.

This is Shopee’s geographical diversification. Indonesia is its largest market, with 29% of GMV, and it’s fairly well diversified across the other countries.

3. Garena Reclaims Its Growth

Moving on to gaming, Garena is Sea’s game studio and publisher. It has a hit game called Free Fire. Free Fire is an evergreen game with more than 600 million users. It’s the largest mobile game in the world. Over the last year, we’ve seen a pretty big inflection in Garena. It has diversified into other games, such as Arena of Valor, Call of Duty: Mobile, Delta Force, and Free City, some of which were co-developed with Tencent. In the short term, Free Fire is relaunching in India. It has about 100 million preregistered users, up from 70 million. Free City, a spin-off of Free Fire that’s more similar to a Grand Theft Auto-like game, had a fantastic launch in Argentina. We expect it to be a meaningful contributor this year as well.

4. SeaMoney Turns Data Into Credit

Finally, SeaMoney is the leading digital financial services provider in Southeast Asia. It solves a real problem and meets a real need. Half of Southeast Asia is unbanked. Compare that to 7% in the U.S. and 20% in China. There’s a long runway for growth, and there are tremendous synergies between SeaMoney and Shopee. Because they touch so many consumers and users on the Shopee platform, they have all this consumer data and are much better able to underwrite creditworthiness than anyone else. That’s reflected in their nonperforming-loan ratio, which is stable at 1.2% and has improved sequentially over the last year.

5. Management Aligns With Shareholders

Lastly, it’s a founder-led management team with extreme alignment with shareholders. Forrest Li is the founder. He owns almost 20% of the company and 60% of the voting rights, so he has control over the company and the board. Chris Feng, who is the president of Sea and the CEO of Shopee, also owns a significant share. Insiders and management own more than 40% of the company, which includes Tencent, which owns 17% of the company.

One thing to note that’s quite important is their actions in 2022. When the stock went down, the management team basically removed all cash compensation for themselves. There were 30 million fully vested RSU grants worth $3 billion that they canceled as the stock went down, which they restructured as PSUs with a $120 share strike price. In my investment career, I’ve never seen a management team do something like this in the United States, let alone in Asia. So, great alignment and a fantastic team.

6. Sea Targets A 3x Return

On setup and valuation, we think the stock has 30% upside. I wish I’d pitched this a week ago—the stock has done nothing but go up. In the short term, over 6 to 12 months, we think the stock has 30% upside to $200 a share, which would bring it in line with the multiples of its comps. More importantly, over a 3- to 5-year period, we think EBITDA flexes from $4 billion this year to $12.5 billion. We think the stock will be a steady compounder at a 25% CAGR and be a 3x-plus. We’re just going to see a continued beat-and-raise cadence of high growth and market-share gains, with improving unit economics and margins over time. Thank you.

Speaker 1

Thank you, John. Bringing people together is hard. I build investment firms for a living, and at the start I’m trying to bring 10 to 20 people together, and it’s like herding cats. So imagine bringing all of you here together. I think part of the reason is that we throw a great conference. We’re better than the competition. But if there’s anything we can do to make it better, grab me or anyone on the host committee and give us some ideas.

Now, talking about competition, I’m curious: What was it about Sea that gave you the conviction that the competitive dynamics are such that it’ll be the winner?

7. Shopee Wins The Logistics War

John Yetimoglu

Yeah, there are a few moving parts that all coincided together. The logistics advantages that they have are important. All their competitors rely predominantly on 3PLs, or third-party logistics, which are much higher cost—mainly J&T Express, which charges $0.75 per parcel and makes about $0.07 of EBIT per package, and has fixed costs in Southeast Asia.

Shopee Express, its first-party logistics business, has a much lower cost to serve and much better service quality. That, coupled with demographics in a region where average order values are $10—low AOVs relative to developed markets, where every penny matters—gives Sea a massive price advantage on its end product. The same product will sell on multiple platforms, but Shopee will always be the lowest price.

Initially, they had given their merchants the ability to use 3PLs, but over time they’ve migrated back to Shopee Express. That differential in cost to serve widened because, as J&T lost order volume, it needed to raise prices in order to maintain the same ROE.

ROE is an important metric for logistics companies. When their competitors saw that they were burning tons of cash, it was a highly competitive environment in Southeast Asia for many years. But they couldn’t compete on price, and they were burning tons of cash trying to do more discounting and promotional activity. Shopee’s scale and the levers they could pull to continue subsidizing were too great.

Over the last couple of years, the water kind of just overflowed, and take rates all went up across the board. Everyone moved to improve unit economics at the same time, and you had a situation where the scale player was able to take more market share and beat out everyone else.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Thanks. Thanks.

John Yetimoglu 在 Sohn 2025 推介 Sea Ltd — 文字稿与摘要 | BidClub