# Can Apple Make Siri a Muse Competitor? | Sharp Tech with Ben Thompson Sharp Tech · 2026-10-09 · 30 min · https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KjgmNEbVgo ## Transcript Andrew Sharp Hello, and welcome to a free preview of Sharp Tech. Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Sharp Tech. I'm Andrew Sharp, and on the other line, Ben, how are you doing? Ben Thompson A little groggy. Not super sharp, not super clear. The only way to honor your baseball team drinking a lot of beer in the clubhouse is to drink a lot of beer yourself. We'll see how it goes, but good. Andrew Sharp Groggy but victorious. Triumphant here on Sharp Tech. You know what I love? I love that there was an entire first-round series played in about 6 days. As somebody who's been through a lot of first-round playoff series that take 2 and a half weeks in the NBA, I like MLB keeping it nice and tight for us. Ben Thompson Well, it is actually the second round, because there was the wild-card round first. Andrew Sharp Oh, I don't count that. Whatever. First real playoff series. Ben Thompson No. It's one of the craziest things about the playoffs in baseball: it is over fast. It has to be, because part of the whole thing is that you need to be tested on your pitching core, right? You need to be playing every day. That's part of figuring out whether you have a good team or not. Andrew Sharp Ah, sure. Ben Thompson The end result is the games—you're super excited— Andrew Sharp Blink and you might miss it, you know? Ben Thompson You're there, and then it's done. My condolences to the Padres. I like that team a lot. We have a good friend who's a big Padres fan. Alas, someone has to lose if the good guys are going to win. Andrew Sharp You had to do what you had to do. Ben Thompson You had to do what you had to do. Andrew Sharp The Brew Crew taking care of business. Here we go. NLCS on deck. Ben Thompson Speaking of fast, last year we lost four over the Dodgers. It was very ugly. It was over quick. Andrew Sharp Talk about blink and you miss it. Yes, indeed. I recall. Ben Thompson We'll see what happens. Andrew Sharp Nowhere to go but up from that performance. Ben Thompson That's right. Andrew Sharp As for the show, we'll kick things off with a handful of questions on Apple. On Monday, you wrote about news from Apple. Late last week, I believe it was Friday, the company announced, “We will introduce additional controls to ensure that Mac users who genuinely wish to grant an app full disk access can only do so with very explicit user action.” Of that news, which was sort of ambiguous, you wrote, “To say that I'm nervous about what Apple's solution will entail is a massive understatement.” That was part of a much larger article. We're not going to spend that much time on the article, but as a reader, I was curious: Why specifically are you nervous, and will Apple's decisions actually affect normal people, or just you and other weirdos? What do you think? Ben Thompson It's always funny how you get feedback on what you wrote. Andrew Sharp Uh-huh. Ben Thompson With you, it's like, “We're not going to spend much time on that.” Andrew Sharp But it's very technical. We're not coding to the metal here on the podcast. Ben Thompson Unfortunately, you can't control me. We're going to be talking about the article. Andrew Sharp Great. ### AI Changes Ben’s Computing Ben Thompson It's been kind of a self-reflective period, not just over the last few weeks but over the last few months, I think, for me and my relationship with computing, AI, agents, and all these sorts of things. The extent to which I am excited and enthused about this sort of stuff, I'm pretty sure it's coming across as me being very excited and very enthused. Are you getting that impression on the podcast? Andrew Sharp Yes. I am. Every now and then, I see tweets about guys in their 40s who may have AI psychosis, and I think of you as a friend. Ben Thompson Absolutely. I've been trying to be very self-aware and concerned: Do I have AI psychosis? Maybe sometimes the answer is yes, and you have to be honest with yourself. But it's fun. For sure, it is fun in a way. I've called back to this being like the '90s and building your own PC and understanding how all this stuff works. I think—this is my current rationalization, my justification—I think it's been very positive for my work because I do feel that the extent to which I understand this stuff is much higher than it was even previously. Fortunately, I feel like a lot of my intuitions I had before were pretty accurate. Now, I think the depth has definitely gotten much greater the more you get into this: understanding the strengths, understanding the weaknesses, what works, what doesn't, what is going to work, what is always going to be a challenge, et cetera. ### Apple Culture Starts To Ossify The reason why the Apple angle is particularly interesting, though, is that when I was at Apple University, the biggest challenge that I perceived with the Apple University concept—and I was there right when it first started—was Joel Podolny was there. I think he might still be there. The concept was that we were going to create this sort of program. Apple famously has this Top 200. It's an annual retreat where the top people in the company go. It's not necessarily the top 200 if you look at the org chart. It's the 200 people who actually matter in terms of building stuff. There might be some random guy who doesn't report to anyone, and you're like, “What's he doing over there?” Actually, he understands the entire thing. It's all in his head. The idea was: How do you maintain culture? What makes Apple Apple, and how do you keep that going? My number one chief concern, which I think remains the biggest problem with something like that, is that once you start writing that sort of stuff down, you're going to get a certain level of ossification. It becomes rigid, and you don't change over time. Predictably, I think Apple University in the ensuing years is still around as a brand name, but it's like an HR program. You could do these cool classes and trainings and stuff like that. I think there is still the “What makes Apple Apple?” presentation, which is fine. Apple is a massive company, and there's real value in that—it's much larger than when I was there. I was there in 2010, and it already felt like, “Man, I can't believe how much bigger we are than a few years ago.” Now it's multiple times the size. There's value in having to preach to the troops: This is what the company is. The fact that it's rigid and ossifying is just a fact of life when you're as large as that. The other issue that I had when I was there was that there were a few people, particularly my direct manager, who I thought had drunk just a bit too much Kool-Aid. Apple could do no wrong. Apple came out with some absurd product when I was there. I want to say it was some sort of fancy charger. I don't know. Someone go back to 2010 and see what the most ridiculous product Apple released that year was. This person bought it on the first day and was raving about it. Andrew Sharp Okay. Ben Thompson I'm like, “Relax. It's really not that big of a deal.” Andrew Sharp Was it a bad product or just a mundane product? Ben Thompson It was just a mundane product. Andrew Sharp Okay. Ben Thompson I want to say it was a battery charger or something. I can't remember what it was. That sort of vaguely—I think I remember— Andrew Sharp But this manager was all in. Ben Thompson That was sort of pervasive. It was a bit of a wake-up call for me, because I was definitely an Apple fanboy. I wasn't a lifelong Mac user. I had been a tinkerer, building my own PCs, and I finally got a Mac around 2004, I think it was. I wanted to play with GarageBand. I loved music, and it seemed super approachable and easy. It was so great. The experience was so good. I was sick of dealing with Windows stuff—figuring out whether something worked, dealing with drivers, troubleshooting. It just worked. All the clichés were there, and layered on top of that, you had this incredible story: Steve Jobs leaving and coming back, beautiful design, and Apple at the top of the world in the 2000s. It was a very easy and attractive train to hop on. Going to Kellogg Business School, Windows ruled the roost, which it still does. Excel on Windows is still much better than anything else. I think I was the head—I think I created the Mac Club or something like that. How do you actually use a Mac in business school? It was much tougher back then than it is now. We did, like— Andrew Sharp Let's work together. Pool all our— Ben Thompson Right. Andrew Sharp …nerd impulses here, sure. Ben Thompson Right. But the Apple nerd was a specific type of nerd. It was like, “No, we’re a nerd that actually cares about design.” Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson We’re not—we’re making fun of the people obsessed with— Andrew Sharp Oh, yeah. Ben Thompson —speeds and— Andrew Sharp The Apple nerd was a particularly insufferable brand of nerd way back when. Ben Thompson Absolutely. You know what? I wore it with pride. I remember I went to Apple University, and it was a bit of a wake-up call. I’m glad I did this, because people in business—it’s like this very— Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson I think it’s filtered down to undergrad now at this point. Everyone’s just thinking about, “What’s my job? What’s my job? What’s my job?” It’s this very sort of dystopian FOMO environment. But before I finished at Apple University, I told someone, “I do not want to come back here to work.” Andrew Sharp Wow. Ben Thompson Even though I thought I had my dream job. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson Not only was my dream to work at Apple, but I was also doing strategy, all these sorts of things, or at least adjacent to that. I wasn’t actually doing Apple strategy, but I was interacting with Apple executives. We were actually talking, particularly the 4 managers— Andrew Sharp Also a pretty good company to join in 2010 if we’re looking backward. Ben Thompson Oh, for sure, yeah. Probably much richer. But— Andrew Sharp Cost yourself some money with that decision. Ben Thompson Yeah. Well, the same thing with Microsoft, to be honest. Andrew Sharp Yep. Ben Thompson But what bothered me at the time was, I felt this had been an amazing summer. I’d learned very deeply and fundamentally how Apple worked, I think in a very tangible way that augmented things I’d known before. Also, there would be no intellectual value for me in coming back here. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson I would worry I was just becoming a member of the choir. Andrew Sharp Yeah. Ben Thompson Preaching to the choir is not useful. I actually want to learn new things. I rationalized my going to Microsoft as, above and beyond the fact that they actually gave me a job, which was great, let’s go somewhere totally different, the exact opposite. I think that actually played out and turned out. So, all that to say, that’s a long and distorted story. Andrew Sharp No, but an interesting personal history. I’m not mad at it. So where are we today? ### Agents Change The Mac Equation Ben Thompson I’ve been waiting for years for this touch-screen MacBook Pro. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson I actually think touch screens are cool. I was at Microsoft when they were first coming out. They’re surprisingly useful in ways you wouldn’t expect. OLED screens are amazing. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson If you’ve seen the Dell XPS, for example— Andrew Sharp They’re so amazing that every time I see a new OLED screen, I just want to buy the product. The new iPads, the new iPad mini, the MacBook Pro—I want all of it. So, yes. Ben Thompson And then Mark Gurman comes out and says, “Not only is the long-awaited MacBook Pro with an OLED touch screen coming out, it’s also significantly lighter because they completely reworked it,” all these sorts of things. This has been the computer I’ve been dreaming about for years and years and years, and I don’t think I’m going to buy one. Andrew Sharp Yeah. Ben Thompson Maybe I’ll buy one eventually, but I’m going to wait and see. I have a bunch of Mac minis that I’ve accumulated from my channels and things like that. The experience, as I wrote about in that article, of operating a headless Mac mini is so bad. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson It’s one of the biggest pain points in my life. Sorry, that overstates it, but in my computing life. I spent a significant amount of money buying a new server that runs Linux. Andrew Sharp Will run on Linux, yep. Ben Thompson There’s this whole thing with David Heinemeier Hansson, this whole movement, and I’m like, “Oh, Omarchy Linux.” I don’t know. I can’t remember what it is. I’m not sure if that’s the answer, but what I know is the future for me is denominated by agents. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson The level of capability it gives you, the things you can do—for me, every new thing that I can do makes me want to do 10 more things. We talked about the holes in your life, software-sized holes. Once you start seeing them, you see them everywhere, and you can fix them. You can get them done right now. I’m so excited and enthusiastic about it, and I feel a twinge of regret. Andrew Sharp Yeah. Ben Thompson I got over my love for Apple in part by being there, in part by writing about them. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson When you write about tech, it’s kind of like talking to people who write about sports teams. One of the sad effects is you end up not really being a sports fan. Andrew Sharp Demystifies it. Sure, yes. Ben Thompson You kind of end up not really being a sports fan. I think you’ve done a pretty good job. An underrated thing Bill Simmons has done is somehow he’s been in sports media for 30, 40 years, and he’s still— Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson —is a diehard fan. Andrew Sharp A diehard. Yeah. Ben Thompson Because you talk to a lot of people who—you talk to your favorite podcaster who covers your local team, and if you talk to them in person, they don’t really care if they win or lose. It’s— Andrew Sharp Totally. Ben Thompson —it’s all about the content. Andrew Sharp It’s a real skill, being able to manufacture the enthusiasm year after year, decade after decade, and your Apple enthusiasm has waned over the years. Ben Thompson No, it’s dead completely. I bought a bunch of Macs because I understood macOS very, very well, and my workflows were highly attuned to it. I don’t like messing around with that. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson But for years, I’ve been— Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson —an OS version behind. I dread buying a new computer because it’s such a pain to set up a new one, right? It’s the— Andrew Sharp Yeah. Ben Thompson But also, just covering a company, I’m not cheering for any of these companies. I’m trying to analyze them as best that I can. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson But deep down in my soul, way down there, if you peel off all the layers, there is an Apple fanboy. Andrew Sharp Sure. Ben Thompson This isn’t a company for me anymore. Andrew Sharp Yeah. Ben Thompson That doesn’t mean they’re doing anything wrong. It’s just, it’s not you, it’s me. Andrew Sharp Fair enough. Well, the thing is, they still make incredible hardware, make it at an unbelievable scale, and deliver it to millions and millions of people— Ben Thompson Right. To be clear— Andrew Sharp —all over the world. Ben Thompson We’re recording, and all my stuff’s right up to my MacBook Pro. I have nothing there in front of me. Andrew Sharp I know. Everybody on this podcast— Ben Thompson I have an iPhone. Andrew Sharp —is using a Mac for everything, yeah. Ben Thompson I can’t wait for the Air 2. And so, just to be clear, this isn’t an “Apple is doomed, I’m throwing up the Air” situation. I’m not doing the—I’m not going Omarchy or whatever, or Linux. I actually love Linux. Once you have an AI agent with Linux, it’s unbelievable. Andrew Sharp Yeah. Ben Thompson The command line is perfect. It’s great. So, no, this isn’t about that. It’s more: am I going to buy this new computer? I’m going to think about it a little bit. Maybe I’ll get it. Andrew Sharp Sure. Ben Thompson But— Andrew Sharp But also, a willingness to explore other options that hasn’t been there for most people over the last 10 or 15 years is interesting and is a shift. I think there’s a dispassionate respect for Apple, but also mounting frustrations with various aspects of being an Apple user. I will, however, return to my initial question as the host of the podcast. Will Apple’s changes affect me, or just people who are hardcore users like you? I’ve been worried that Apple could restrict access in various ways and degrade what’s possible for various AI applications that we want to use over the next 5 to 10 years. They could do so in the name of security, in the name of protecting data, whatever it might be, all of which would also help Apple maintain control and Apple’s own primacy. Going back to the very early innings of OpenAI and its hardware experiment with Jony Ive, that was one of the animating concerns that made that idea potentially not crazy. So are we worried about Apple potentially doing that to Macs going forward and changing the way agents operate on our computers? Ben Thompson Yes. Andrew Sharp Or is that not really what the issue is? Okay. ### Apple Locks Down The Mac Ben Thompson No, 100%. They’ve been going down this road for a while—not with agents in mind, just in general. I’ve been complaining about this for a very long time. This isn’t a new complaint. I’ve brought up the headless Mac, these stupid— Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson —permission dialogues that come up that— And there’s a reason for them: apps can abuse the access they have. If you brought up a permission dialogue that could be accessed via software, malware could just click “OK” for you. There’s a reason it’s completely separated, such that the agents on my computer just don’t know when things aren’t working. They don’t know why: “Oh, gotta log in.” Yep, there it is. Andrew Sharp Yeah. Ben Thompson By the way, Golden Gate is way worse: way more dialogues. It’s a big pain in the rear end. I have an additional complaint. I updated because I wanted to be fully up to date, but if you update a headless Mac—even if you have the permission set so that, on restart, it should automatically log in. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson That’s kind of essential because you don’t want to have to go to a login screen for this computer. Andrew Sharp On your headless Mac, sure. Ben Thompson Once you update Golden Gate, it does not log in automatically. You have to go in and physically log in or have a KVM switch. Andrew Sharp Oh, God. Okay. Yeah. Ben Thompson Which, by the way, is why I didn’t have “Apply Updates Automatically” checked. Andrew Sharp Hmm. Ben Thompson Now, I think that doesn’t cover completely new OSes. I think it’s because going to Golden Gate was a major upgrade, but I don’t know for sure. I didn’t want to risk it, so I just checked “Update Security Patches.” The other thing I want to add: it’s my fault I got hacked. I had port 5900 open. That was dumb. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson So I take full responsibility. But we’re in this weird middle ground where Apple is so insistent on taking care of security on my behalf— Andrew Sharp The nanny state. Ben Thompson I let my guard down. Andrew Sharp Yeah. Ben Thompson I let my guard down and trusted they were taking care of it. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson When I have another Linux computer, I’m super diligent. I think very carefully about the security there because I know I’m on the hook, right? Andrew Sharp Yeah. Ben Thompson There’s this enabling aspect to using Apple’s stuff where they’re so insistent. It’s kind of like a codependent relationship: “Let us take care of it. We will do it. Don’t worry, we got it.” Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson I’m like, “Okay, fine. I’ll leave the port open. I’m sure you’ll take care of it. You’ll update it.” Andrew Sharp Right. Ben Thompson And they’re like, “Right.” And so— Andrew Sharp Well, what’s interesting to me as a normie is that it’s inseparable from the Apple value proposition. When you look at how much better Apple computers have worked than PCs—well, than Windows—over the last 20 years, it is a night-and-day experience from what I remember. Maybe Windows has gotten better. I haven’t felt the need to try because Apple just works and is more secure from a virus standpoint and everything else than anything I experienced previously. Ben Thompson Yeah. And I think the brilliant thing about the positioning of the Mac, just to go back to that Polyam article that I cited, is that it was also a Unix workstation. You had the command line. You had full access to the entire tool set. Back in the day, before we got containers and things like that, it was the closest thing you could get to working in the same environment that was up on the server. It was the perfect developer machine. Andrew Sharp Yeah. Ben Thompson So they were in this sweet spot of being the perfect developer-hacker machine and also being the best machine for normies. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson And what’s happened over the last few years is that they have leaned more and more into— Andrew Sharp We must protect the normies. Ben Thompson —the best machine for normies— Andrew Sharp Yeah. Ben Thompson —trying to make it more and more like an iPhone or an iPad, and adding in all these protections and permission dialogues and all these sorts of things. It is making it worse and worse for a hacker or a developer— Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson —or anyone who wants to use it the way I want to use it. And that’s where it’s not you, it’s me. Andrew Sharp Yeah. Ben Thompson I don’t want to go down the normie road. I’m so excited about this other road, and I just don’t think Apple serves both anymore. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson And I don’t know that it’s possible to serve both anymore. If it’s possible, Apple’s not doing it. Andrew Sharp Yeah. Ben Thompson And that’s why it is what it is. It’s not 2004 anymore. Andrew Sharp There you go. You mentioned this other news that we had with Apple. Mark Gurman reported that Apple’s upcoming push into smart-home devices will include a doorbell, thermostat, and other accessories developed through an unusual partnership with LG. The products will be part of an ecosystem of devices that work with Apple’s new smart-home hub, as well as an upgraded HomePod mini and a new TV set-top box, according to people with knowledge of the matter. Gurman added on Twitter, “The accessories are meant to outfit Apple’s major new smart-home ecosystem, all with Siri AI at the center.” As a normie, let me just say that none of that sounds appealing to me. I don’t know whether I’m crazy, but I don’t want a smart home. I don’t want more stuff in my life that’s connected to the internet, more appliances. I don’t want any of these AI assistants. Even the Charms don’t really have that much appeal to me. Am I wrong for feeling that way? Are you excited by the possibilities here? Is there upside that I’m leaving on the table? Ben Thompson I love this approach by Apple. Andrew Sharp Okay. Ben Thompson I kind of wish I had known about this before I wrote my article because it really is the counterpoint to what I was trying to express. I think my article comes across as too negative toward Apple. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson What I was trying to describe is that the moment when the Mac was great for hackers and great for normie people was a weird moment in time. Andrew Sharp Yeah. Ben Thompson The actual expectation is that there are 2 paths for computing. I am so excited about this one path: writing software for everything. Andrew Sharp On the frontier, yeah. Ben Thompson And getting a 3D printer, soldering circuit boards, and all the rest. There's so much stuff. The number of ideas I have so vastly outweighs my time to do them. And yet, even then, because of AI, I’ve accomplished so many cool things in the last few months that it blows my mind. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson So I’m all the way down this path, and that path doesn’t include Apple products. Andrew Sharp Yeah. Ben Thompson That could be because it’s an insecure path, a dangerous path, a risky path, and a fun path. That’s the path I want to go down. That’s not Apple’s value proposition anymore, and that’s okay. Andrew Sharp Yeah. Ben Thompson The other path is that the reason to do all this stuff is that a lot of this stuff is actually pretty great. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson A lot of the smartphone and smart-home concepts are really good concepts. The reason you don’t want to do it is your assumption that it all sucks and it’s going to— Andrew Sharp Yeah. I have an LG television that insists on connecting to the internet, and you finally told me, “Just disconnect it from the internet,” because I just want it to be a TV. I don’t want it to be constantly updating its software and hitting me with all these different prompts. It’s a phenomenal TV. Ben Thompson Oh, that’s my value. Andrew Sharp Best TV I’ve ever owned. Ben Thompson Yeah, and that’s my value. Andrew Sharp The issue is that the software is a pain in the ass, and it doesn’t need to be a connected device. Ben Thompson Right. And so all those are—right now, the smart-home ecosystem stinks. I have a bunch of stuff. It kind of works together, but it drives my wife up the wall. She can’t stand any of it. I’m totally sympathetic to that. This was my concern about Apple announcing a new home device, and I put in Monday’s article, “Not really excited about this,” because the whole ecosystem stinks. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson The only way I think to get the ecosystem to work is that you have to do it yourself. You write all the software, you get your agent working, and then you’ll get this experience that’s bespoke and custom to you, but also super cool, which is not like— Andrew Sharp Nobody’s going to do that. Ben Thompson I do it because it’s fun, right? Andrew Sharp 0.1%, yeah. Ben Thompson Yeah, 100%. And then this announcement drops about all these devices, and I’m like, “Aha, actually really smart.” Andrew Sharp Mm. Ben Thompson If there are 2 paths, those 2 paths should be as opposite as they can be, such that if one makes sense, the exact opposite also makes sense. If one path is to hack everything, write your own custom software for everything, and do it all yourself, the other path is to let Apple do everything. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson The reason why the smart home stuff stinks is everyone's trying to say, “I'm gonna do the core piece,” like the Google Home thing or the Amazon thing or whatever Apple's gonna propose, and then we're gonna have an ecosystem where developers can plug in and do all their bits and pieces. And the problem is there's a lowest-common-denominator problem here. No one else does it well enough. We tolerate bad apps on our phone. When it comes to having a bad thermostat, you're gonna throttle someone. Andrew Sharp Yeah. Ben Thompson Andrew Sharp Totally. Ben Thompson And so the opposite of wanting to hack everything is trusting one company to do everything. It's like the Microsoft approach to enterprise software. For a lot of businesses, it has always made sense: just buy all the Microsoft stuff. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson It might be kind of mediocre. It might not be as good as best of breed, but it all kind of has to work together. Andrew Sharp It's interoperable, which has also— Ben Thompson And if it doesn't work— Andrew Sharp —been an Apple specialty. Yeah. Ben Thompson If it doesn't work, you know who to blame, right? One throat to choke. Andrew Sharp Yeah. Ben Thompson This makes tons of sense for Apple. The opposite path for me is the Apple-does-it-all path, and it doubles down on their commitment to privacy. Like the LG thing—LG TVs spy on you. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson I trust that if Apple's in charge of the LG thing, that's not going to happen. Andrew Sharp They won't. Ben Thompson They actually have a credible, credible sort of story to tell there. I don't want to integrate third-party software. At the end of the day, I don't want an app for my thermostat. If there's an app for these thermostats, they've failed. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson What I want is to tell Siri to turn the temperature down, set XYZ. Andrew Sharp Anyway. Ben Thompson This whole middle layer—applications have been this middle layer that is going away for almost everything outside of where they make a ton of sense. If there's an app for your smart device, it's probably gonna suck. Andrew Sharp Mm-hmm. Ben Thompson I want direct from AI to the hardware, and you're only going to get that, number one, if you do it yourself, or number two, if one company does it all. Andrew Sharp Integrated, yeah. Ben Thompson That's Apple's value proposition. Do it all. Now, this is second-party. They're not making their own thermostat, but I think it's a middle ground that potentially makes sense. Andrew Sharp Okay. Ben Thompson Apple's gonna stand behind these, put them in their store, be on the hook for making sure their software works for it. I can see that path. We'll see if it works, but it makes a lot of sense to me. Andrew Sharp Rational and coherent. Well, to Apple's credit, going back to you and your Apple nerd club at business school, they do still make elegant products and well-designed products, and so I'm sure this will be cool. I just don't personally feel like I need it, but maybe that's because I just haven't experienced what a good version of this could look like with a smart home. But keeping it moving, another Apple initiative that we have not discussed at all on the podcast. ### Foldables Unlock New Use Cases Rahim says, “Hi, guys. Ben recently said he wasn't interested in the iPhone Duo as he mostly uses his iPhone one-handed and that the current form factor suits him well. Isn't the whole point of technology to see what new use cases a new form factor might unlock? With an iPhone Duo, you get an iPad-esque experience in places you've never had it before: waiting rooms, the food court, your kids' baseball games. Yes, even on the can. Is Ben making the same mistake as Aswath Damodaran made with valuing Uber, not accounting for the new rides that would take place now that a convenient service such as Uber existed? “P.S. If Ben got a Duo and shared his experience, it would help those of us on the fence justify spending the astronomical $2,000 on the iPhone Duo, or $3,000 for those of us in Canada.” Any thoughts on Rahim's push to get you on the Duo bandwagon? Ben Thompson Yeah. This is a ridiculous email for lots of reasons. Number one, as a note, I should have noted this. I was like, “Oh, Apple didn't raise prices that much.” Apple raised prices like crazy all over the world. So in Taiwan, the iPhone Duo is gonna be like $500 more than it is in the U.S., or $400 more, or something like that. And I think that's the case in lots of places. Number two, this comparison to Uber. Andrew Sharp All right, and that is the end of the free preview. If you'd like to hear more from Ben and I, there are links to subscribe in the show notes, or you can also go to sharptech.fm. Either option will get you access to a personalized feed that has all the shows we do every week, plus lots more great content from Stratechery and the Stratechery Plus bundle. Check it out, and if you've got feedback, please email us at email@sharptech.fm.